Kansas, Missouri battle over companies

[KCPowercat]

Score one - a significant one - for KCMO. While I hate the border war, it's good that Kansas feels the sting from time to time. Unfortunately, most of the moves end up at the Plaza or suburban KC.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 603c299d-1

I believe the "sting" is almost exactly even.

[KCMax]

I believe CBIZ was receiving tax incentives from Kansas.

[rxlexi]

Good to see Plaza Steppes filling up again after the departure of Polsinelli. Now let's get another new tower up next door.

[FangKC]

I've mentioned this before on other threads (probably this one). Our current border war--using incentives--serves as a method for big firms to jump back and forth across the border to take advantage of each state's incentive packages.

CBIZ moves to Kansas. Once the incentives are no longer of benefit, the company moves back to Missouri. CBIZ moved from Crown Center, and MHM moved from the Plaza, to Leawood in 2002. I don't know what economic incentives these companies got, or for how long they lasted. It's 2014 and CBIZ is moving back to Missouri. Perhaps the incentive package expired--maybe it lasted 10 years.

Longtime KC companies inch toward JoCo

Nov 11, 2001
Jim Davis
Staff Writer

Three old-line Kansas City companies -- MHM Business Services Inc., Robert D. O'Byrne & Associates Inc. and Midland Loan Services Inc. -- are preparing to bolt across the state line to Johnson County.

Economic incentives are the magnet. Kansas can offer tax credits and job-training grants to companies new to the state, including those moving only a few miles from Missouri. These perks dwarf benefits available to companies that remain in Kansas City.

...

MHM, a Plaza-based accounting firm long known as Mayer Hoffman McCann, is owned by Century Business Services Inc. (Nasdaq: CBIZ), a Cleveland-based consolidator of business service providers. CBIZ also owns O'Byrne, an employee-benefits consultant based in Crown Center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

Apr 29, 2001,
Leawood office park turns its sights to CBIZ units

Jim Davis
Staff Writer

But Slabotsky said tax incentives will drive the relocation. Kansas has an edge, he said, offering benefits "well into seven figures." The state gives tax credits and job-training grants to new companies, even ones moving only a few miles from Missouri.

"So far, Missouri hasn't stepped up to do anything near that," Slabotsky said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

As one can see, this practice benefits no one in the long term. CBIZ didn't stay permanently in Johnson County, Kansas. Thus, the practice of using large economic incentives didn't result in CBIZ staying permanently in Johnson County, and being a long-term contributor to the state economy.

As I stated, I don't know what incentives they got. But let's say they got a deal on not having to pay state or county property taxes, or payroll taxes. They might have gotten Kansas to pay for their physical move, and more funds, or tax credits of some kind, for outfitting their building and buying office furniture.

Now CBIZ has moved back to Missouri, and is using one of Missouri's economic incentives to hire more workers.

My point is that many of these big companies don't want a border truce in the economic war. It's to their benefit that it exists. How many local companies have already played this game, and made the jump back and forth over the border because of these incentives?

It's conceivable that should the border war continue for decades, some of these firms will figure out a way to move back and forth, time and again, using tax incentives to avoid paying taxes that fund city/county/state services, or contribute to the communities in which they operate.

Is it fair to other businesses that are too small, and don't get economic incentives when they move, that they still have to pay property and payroll taxes? They have to contribute to funding government services, while these big employers don't.

[Pork Chop]

I've mentioned this before on other threads (probably this one). Our current border war--using incentives--serves as a method for big firms to jump back and forth across the border to take advantage of each state's incentive packages.

CBIZ moves to Kansas. Once the incentives are no longer of benefit, the company moves back to Missouri. CBIZ moved from Crown Center, and MHM moved from the Plaza, to Leawood in 2002. I don't know what economic incentives these companies got, or for how long they lasted. It's 2014 and CBIZ is moving back to Missouri. Perhaps the incentive package expired--maybe it lasted 10 years.

Longtime KC companies inch toward JoCo

Nov 11, 2001
Jim Davis
Staff Writer

Three old-line Kansas City companies -- MHM Business Services Inc., Robert D. O'Byrne & Associates Inc. and Midland Loan Services Inc. -- are preparing to bolt across the state line to Johnson County.

Economic incentives are the magnet. Kansas can offer tax credits and job-training grants to companies new to the state, including those moving only a few miles from Missouri. These perks dwarf benefits available to companies that remain in Kansas City.

...

MHM, a Plaza-based accounting firm long known as Mayer Hoffman McCann, is owned by Century Business Services Inc. (Nasdaq: CBIZ), a Cleveland-based consolidator of business service providers. CBIZ also owns O'Byrne, an employee-benefits consultant based in Crown Center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

Apr 29, 2001,
Leawood office park turns its sights to CBIZ units

Jim Davis
Staff Writer

But Slabotsky said tax incentives will drive the relocation. Kansas has an edge, he said, offering benefits "well into seven figures." The state gives tax credits and job-training grants to new companies, even ones moving only a few miles from Missouri.

"So far, Missouri hasn't stepped up to do anything near that," Slabotsky said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

As one can see, this practice benefits no one in the long term. CBIZ didn't stay permanently in Johnson County, Kansas. Thus, the practice of using large economic incentives didn't result in CBIZ staying permanently in Johnson County, and being a long-term contributor to the state economy.

As I stated, I don't know what incentives they got. But let's say they got a deal on not having to pay state or county property taxes, or payroll taxes. They might have gotten Kansas to pay for their physical move, and more funds, or tax credits of some kind, for outfitting their building and buying office furniture.

Now CBIZ has moved back to Missouri, and is using one of Missouri's economic incentives to hire more workers.

My point is that many of these big companies don't want a border truce in the economic war. It's to their benefit that it exists. How many local companies have already played this game, and made the jump back and forth over the border because of these incentives?

It's conceivable that should the border war continue for decades, some of these firms will figure out a way to move back and forth, time and again, using tax incentives to avoid paying taxes that fund city/county/state services, or contribute to the communities in which they operate.

Is it fair to other businesses that are too small, and don't get economic incentives when they move, that they still have to pay property and payroll taxes? They have to contribute to funding government services, while these big employers don't.

Have you ever thought of writing one of those "The Way I See It" (or whatever it is called) letters to the KC Star? This would be a great one. I think the only way this will stop is if residents on both sides of the state line tell their elect officials to stop. This is the type of logic that I think would help in getting people to see the light on the issue. The boarder war doesn't benefit the average joe, but it sure does take their taxes and gives it to the well to do in those companies.

[KCMax]

Totally agree. You should write a guest column.

[kboish]

Don't we already write most of Collison's columns anyway? (RIP)

[Highlander]

I've mentioned this before on other threads (probably this one). Our current border war--using incentives--serves as a method for big firms to jump back and forth across the border to take advantage of each state's incentive packages.

CBIZ moves to Kansas. Once the incentives are no longer of benefit, the company moves back to Missouri. CBIZ moved from Crown Center, and MHM moved from the Plaza, to Leawood in 2002. I don't know what economic incentives these companies got, or for how long they lasted. It's 2014 and CBIZ is moving back to Missouri. Perhaps the incentive package expired--maybe it lasted 10 years.

Longtime KC companies inch toward JoCo

Nov 11, 2001
Jim Davis
Staff Writer

Three old-line Kansas City companies -- MHM Business Services Inc., Robert D. O'Byrne & Associates Inc. and Midland Loan Services Inc. -- are preparing to bolt across the state line to Johnson County.

Economic incentives are the magnet. Kansas can offer tax credits and job-training grants to companies new to the state, including those moving only a few miles from Missouri. These perks dwarf benefits available to companies that remain in Kansas City.

...

MHM, a Plaza-based accounting firm long known as Mayer Hoffman McCann, is owned by Century Business Services Inc. (Nasdaq: CBIZ), a Cleveland-based consolidator of business service providers. CBIZ also owns O'Byrne, an employee-benefits consultant based in Crown Center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

Apr 29, 2001,
Leawood office park turns its sights to CBIZ units

Jim Davis
Staff Writer

But Slabotsky said tax incentives will drive the relocation. Kansas has an edge, he said, offering benefits "well into seven figures." The state gives tax credits and job-training grants to new companies, even ones moving only a few miles from Missouri.

"So far, Missouri hasn't stepped up to do anything near that," Slabotsky said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... l?page=all

As one can see, this practice benefits no one in the long term. CBIZ didn't stay permanently in Johnson County, Kansas. Thus, the practice of using large economic incentives didn't result in CBIZ staying permanently in Johnson County, and being a long-term contributor to the state economy.

As I stated, I don't know what incentives they got. But let's say they got a deal on not having to pay state or county property taxes, or payroll taxes. They might have gotten Kansas to pay for their physical move, and more funds, or tax credits of some kind, for outfitting their building and buying office furniture.

Now CBIZ has moved back to Missouri, and is using one of Missouri's economic incentives to hire more workers.

My point is that many of these big companies don't want a border truce in the economic war. It's to their benefit that it exists. How many local companies have already played this game, and made the jump back and forth over the border because of these incentives?

It's conceivable that should the border war continue for decades, some of these firms will figure out a way to move back and forth, time and again, using tax incentives to avoid paying taxes that fund city/county/state services, or contribute to the communities in which they operate.

Is it fair to other businesses that are too small, and don't get economic incentives when they move, that they still have to pay property and payroll taxes? They have to contribute to funding government services, while these big employers don't.

Have you ever thought of writing one of those "The Way I See It" (or whatever it is called) letters to the KC Star? This would be a great one. I think the only way this will stop is if residents on both sides of the state line tell their elect officials to stop. This is the type of logic that I think would help in getting people to see the light on the issue. The boarder war doesn't benefit the average joe, but it sure does take their taxes and gives it to the well to do in those companies.

A response to Yael's column about KC's stagnant economy would have been a great time to make these points. While most other cities are actively engaged in helping outside concerns move into their cities and supporting those industries they already have, KC and it's suburbs spend both money and political capital fighting to get companies already in the area to move a few blocks. Madness. Since these companies are only moving a few miles and do not need to spend money relocating employees (buying homes, covering employee home moving and closing costs etc....), there is every incentive in the world to take advantage of the idiocy on either side of state line. Moving offices in a city is relatively easy - moving your entire workforce into new cities and new homes is outrageously expensive. Little wonder we do so poorly with the latter.

[aknowledgeableperson]

That's assuming there are many, or even a few, companies willing to even consider moving to the KC area. Trying to remember when the area last snagged a major relocation.

[grovester]

Then leave that cash in your pocket. Typical corporate/govt situation. Have budget must spend.

[Highlander]

That's assuming there are many, or even a few, companies willing to even consider moving to the KC area. Trying to remember when the area last snagged a major relocation.

Gee - I wonder why. When KC's (Missouri and Kansas side of the state line) development organizations are looking no further than the next county, it's little wonder why there has been very little relocation from outside the metro.

[FangKC]

Missouri offers up to $26M to lure CBIZ to Plaza

...

The Missouri Department of Economic Development has fired the latest salvo. It confirmed Tuesday that it will grant CBIZ Inc. and Mayer Hoffman McCann PC more than $26 million in incentives through the Missouri Works program if they meet job-creation and investment criteria at their new home on the Country Club Plaza.

...

http://tinyurl.com/qan33mj

[chaglang]

I think the state line does have a lot to do with this. People from the Illinois side I think are apt to say that they are from Illinois just outside St. Louis (though people in Illinois don't usually just say they are from Illinois, like people do with Kansas). Whereas "St. Louis" has been known to extend west to that "YOU ARE NOW ENTERING IMOS COUNTRY" or the Fox Sports Midwest Cardinals sign, I think they are both pretty close together in Warren County.

Maybe. I think you guys are falling into a bit of confirmation bias vis-a-vis, what a shitty meto partner JoCo is (and for the record, I agree with that premise).

I think most people will tell someone else from the same metro (or with a knowledge of the metro) a more specific locale, and that it gets more general the farther away from one's home base the interlocutors are. Saying, "I'm from Kansas/OP/Leawood" is really no different than me telling people I live in "South Plaza". Case in point, I was in DC last month and was talking to a group of people. We were introducing ourselves and one of them said, "You're from KC? I'm from St Louis?" and when I said, "I love St Louis, we go there all the time, its a great day trip." He said, "Yeah I grew up in the suburbs, Baldwin, just southwest of the city."

I'm pretty sure if I had said, "I'm from St Louis", he would have said, "Really, where? I'm from Baldwin."

My point is, usually when you talk about KC, you're talking to someone from KC or who knows about KC, and people get a little more specific.

CityLab: Why You Shouldn't Mock Suburbanites Who Say They're From the City
http://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/0 ... ty/374778/

[GRID]

Missouri offers up to $26M to lure CBIZ to Plaza

...

The Missouri Department of Economic Development has fired the latest salvo. It confirmed Tuesday that it will grant CBIZ Inc. and Mayer Hoffman McCann PC more than $26 million in incentives through the Missouri Works program if they meet job-creation and investment criteria at their new home on the Country Club Plaza.

...

http://tinyurl.com/qan33mj

What do people think about this? $26 million to move into an existing building across state line? It's like KC and MO has thrown in the towel and come down to the level of Kansas. At least it's not in another crappy butler building at 435 and state line (Freightquote deal), but for 26 million, a new tower north of 31st should be part of the deal. I guess they would have just stayed in Leawood if KCMO said no. It seems like it's impossible to lure a company back into the city (all the way into the city) from JoCo once they have left. The plaza is as far into Missouri as the JoCo folks want to go...

[earthling]

That's assuming there are many, or even a few, companies willing to even consider moving to the KC area. Trying to remember when the area last snagged a major relocation.

Gee - I wonder why. When KC's (Missouri and Kansas side of the state line) development organizations are looking no further than the next county, it's little wonder why there has been very little relocation from outside the metro.

Maybe KC area could have better chances encouraging existing local companies to acquire outside companies of any size than enticing companies to move here as there's too much competition. May be worth providing incentives to local companies that acquire outside companies (outside KS/MO) as long as it brings XXX many jobs to KC area with some form of conditions to return incentives if acquiring company is later acquired from outside area.

M&As are down to a science and local companies looking to grow can often do it faster by acquisition than just by self expansion. It also may be the fastest way to grow KC economy. As it stands, seems many more outsiders are acquiring KC companies than vice versa, which may be contributing to the slowdown in KC.

[Highlander]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 08028.html

I think there is a place for incentives but not in the burbs. If at all available, they should be limited to attracting companies into locations that create density and enhance public transportation opportunities. Not for sprawl.

[flyingember]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 08028.html

I think there is a place for incentives but not in the burbs. If at all available, they should be limited to attracting companies into locations that create density and enhance public transportation opportunities. Not for sprawl.

You can do that in the suburbs. Imagine if Metcalf South was replaced with a dense mixed use development. It has bus service and bike access already. There's a medical complex at approx 10000 block of Metcalf building a 3-story building inbetween two less dense structure. Perfect example of going denser in an existing area.

I would go a step back and say that incentives need to be tied to not moving a business around no matter where they are. Like if you get $100k, if a store closes and moves to your center you forfeit $90k. And so on. Have the money with regular threesholds too. Like if it's a 25 year business tax incentive you have to maintain the same level over the 25 years. You can't move with $100k in incentives, layoff half your staff in 3 years and keep getting the money.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Incentives were rare and quite limited. Then people started to expand the definition of blight and the path down the slippery slope started.

[kboish]

I heard Greg Kindle from the Wyco EDC speak the other day. He had some interesting things to say. When asked about his thoughts on the Border he replied- At first I would pass on KCMO businesses looking to relocate, but after a short while of doing that I began hearing it from my constituents. So it was either I go after those businesses or I find another job.

He said KCK doesn't get the front page type relocations (biz w/ over 50 jobs or so), but that the small businesses relocating from KCMO were their bread and butter. He did mention that there are currently 2-3 "front page type" deals in the works. One of which is 1300 jobs for the abandoned EPA building. He called those young- well paid type jobs...which sounds like a tech firm to me. They have to come up with 900 parking spacing in addition to the 450 space garage attached to the building...so they will likely build a parking garage behind the Reardon center. Now of course the deal isn't sealed up and they could always relocate w/n KCMO, but it was obvious they were aggressively going after them.

Now the interesting questions- Can anyone think of a firm with 1300 jobs looking for new digs?

But I'd say hearing this makes me think this Border war is looong from nearing an end.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Don't forget Mayor James' efforts to reduce one "automatic" subsidy and the KCMO economic community basically saying forget it.