Sidewalk Cafe - Question on ordinance

[PumpkinStalker]

There is a restaurant in town on a busy 4 lane street. It's on a corner, and every single nice day, they have completely blocked passage on the sidewalk due to the placement of their tables and chairs near a tree which is surrounded by a 2' tall pipe railing that goes around the perimeter of the gravel box. The city ordinance on sidewalk cafe licensing, states that tables and chairs must be 5' from the curb.

I love sidewalk seating and feel it adds vibrancy to a street, but I would also like to walk down a street without having to slide across the hood of a car in an angled space, or balance my way across a railing around the tree. Obviously I'll first have a talk with the manager to see if I can work this out, hopefully it will resolve this. But it appears the violation may be more with the ADA laws than the city since technically they are 5' from the curb per the ordinance. Would the city still enforce this if it's ADA related? I'll send it to 311 if my talk doesn't go well.



From Sec. 64-168. - Sidewalk cafe permit.

*The permittee shall comply with all applicable laws, including the Americans with Disabilities Act.
*Tables and chairs for customers shall be placed no less than five feet back from the front of the curb of the abutting street.

[kucer]

Louie's?

[flyingember]

Report it. Sidewalk maintenance and continual access is the #1 thing to report across the city.

It's a moral issue as much as anything.

[PumpkinStalker]

Louie's?

Possibly....

[smh]

Tannin is one of the worst, IMO. Nearly impossible to walk by that place without walking on the bouncy tree well grate. Can't imagine being in a wheelchair through there.

[smh]

In general, I don't think sidewalk cafes should offer four top seating. Unless blessed with a substantial sidewalk, most should be limited to the small two top cafe tables such as those seen outside Quay Coffee.

[pash]

.

[KCPowercat]

Pash is right. Problem is sidewalks are entirely too narrow in this city.

[FangKC]

Yet, when we had the opportunity to build wider sidewalks (when entire blocks were cleared), we didn't.

Main Street between 12th and 13th.

http://tinyurl.com/o57vvnt

Main Street at 13th.

http://tinyurl.com/p2962xa

E. 13th near Main.

http://tinyurl.com/ntufgne

[pash]

.

[FangKC]

I would say that one explanation would be that people (including those making the decisions about such things here) just haven't experienced living in another city with a vibrant street life. That meaning streets with wide sidewalks, street furniture, nice signage, tree canopies, windows with displays on sidewalk-facing building frontages, outdoor seating for restaurants, etc.

I can't imagine anyone who has experienced those things by living elsewhere, or even visiting, wouldn't want them for their own city. When one lives in such a city, just walking around the neighborhood is a form of entertainment.

I still don't understand why Cordish designed the buildings facing Grand the way they did. The two blocks of Grand facing the Sprint Center would have been a great opportunity to have outside tables on a wider inset sidewalk, or covered insets into the buildings themselves. It would have set a trend for that type of use along Grand--making it a more pedestrian-oriented street with activity.

http://tinyurl.com/q5zxb6k

http://tinyurl.com/nzjafcl

[flyingember]

I still don't understand why Cordish designed the buildings facing Grand the way they did

Open container laws?

Alcohol sales are a big deal for restaurants so a design that helps promote them is going to be preferred over sidewalk seating.

[pash]

.

[flyingember]

A center turn lane can be used by delivery trucks mid block. That's your usage model

[pash]

.

[FangKC]

I still don't understand why Cordish designed the buildings facing Grand the way they did

Open container laws?

Alcohol sales are a big deal for restaurants so a design that helps promote them is going to be preferred over sidewalk seating.

No, it's not open container laws what would prevent such a design. McCoys in Westport has outdoor seating right up to the sidewalk. Harry's Country Club, Le Fou Frog, and Winslow's in the River Market have outdoor seating in the summer, and they all serve alcohol. The Freighthouse restaurants have outdoor patios.

[FangKC]

The two blocks of Grand facing the Sprint Center would have been a great opportunity to have outside tables on a wider inset sidewalk, or covered insets into the buildings themselves.

I don't think the solution is to move buildings back. Developers wouldn't go for it, and there aren't going to be many opportunities to do that anyway.

The City had a huge amount of leverage in how the district would have been designed. After all, the City guaranteed the bond payments on the project, and gave them the land to build the project, handed over the Mainstreet Theater building to them, negotiated major tenants for them (H&R Bloch, Cosentino's), etc. The City also provided them with a substantial customer base by building the Sprint Center across the street.

City leaders most probably could have asked that Cordish put street seating for restaurants and bars along Grand and gotten it. The City could also have simply widened the sidewalks before the project was built out by enacting a wider public easement on the land parcels before they handed them over to Cordish to develop, thus creating the space for tables and chairs.

[pash]

.

[loftguy]

Up until ten years ago, the city's ordinances regarding sidewalk seating were onerous, or at least the way that they were being interpreted and enforced was highly prohibitive. Nearly impossible for restaurants to make it happen.

This is one of the areas where some city decision makers recognized the opportunity to make our city a more livable place and to back off the heavy-handed policing. They loosened the requirements and diminished enforcement. We got more lively sidewalks and restaurant experiences as result.

Smh, I do not understand your wish to make sidewalk seating only for two tops. Some of my most fun experiences have been at group tables on sidewalks around the world (and in some coopted streets!).

Of course, reasonable room has to be made for pedestrians and wheelchairs, etc... Overall though, get rid of the rules and let people live!

Side note: I just returned from the middle-east and I'm filled with the recognition of how damned controlled and controlling we have become in the U.S.. It's a disorder.

[grovester]

Up until ten years ago, the city's ordinances regarding sidewalk seating were onerous, or at least the way that they were being interpreted and enforced was highly prohibitive. Nearly impossible for restaurants to make it happen.

This is one of the areas where some city decision makers recognized the opportunity to make our city a more livable place and to back off the heavy-handed policing. They loosened the requirements and diminished enforcement. We got more lively sidewalks and restaurant experiences as result.

Smh, I do not understand your wish to make sidewalk seating only for two tops. Some of my most fun experiences have been at group tables on sidewalks around the world (and in some coopted streets!).

Of course, reasonable room has to be made for pedestrians and wheelchairs, etc... Overall though, get rid of the rules and let people live!

Side note: I just returned from the middle-east and I'm filled with the recognition of how damned controlled and controlling we have become in the U.S.. It's a disorder.

Looking forward to some loftguy/middle-east stories! Or did you have to sign a non-disclosure to get out of the country?