Union Hill Development

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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smh
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by smh »

I haven't read the entire thread--but isn't the problem with that site that it is owned by Hallmark who most likely have some long-term plans for it?
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by FangKC »

KCroots mentioned that in his earlier post.
smh wrote:I haven't read the entire thread--but isn't the problem with that site that it is owned by Hallmark who most likely have some long-term plans for it?
KCroots wrote:
moderne wrote:The developer is also the architect. This development is a good reason for you to open your diner in the Velvet Freeze building.
Also on a side note, is Main Street at Warwick Trfy considered inside Union Hill neighborhood or part of Crown Center? I had originally really wanted to consider that corner but since it’s owned by Hallmark and slated as part of their future master redevelopment plan I doubt that that property will ever be available, thus causing me to continue to look at other options.
FangKC wrote:Below is the site at Main and Warwick that KCroots mentioned as a possible development site for his project.

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Below is the site with the layout of his building plan.

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Below is a potential building design for the project.

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Below is a Google Streetview of the parcels.

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KCroots
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCroots »

Thanks Fang,

In my research I have discovered finding a site that fits such a project is very difficult. You find a lot or property you like and it's either not for sale, or the zoning isn't right or it belongs to the land squatters etc. Then if you do find a property then either the neighborhood or the demographics don't lend itself to the project. Its very frustrating. Then add on top of that you put it out there that you're interested in such a project and then its likely you'll get spammed urrr.. I meant "solicited" by real estate agents trying to sell you land or buildings that benefit them but not your project.

In regards to the Men's Apparel store I want to open I always hear the same suggestion and thats "Oh the Country Club Plaza would be a perfect place for such a store" I disagree, and I've been reading threads, blogs and general information regarding the CC Plaza and I just don't think its even close to being the place I'd like to locate such a business.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not intentionally knocking the CC Plaza and as a Kansas City Landmark it is well respected however the reality of it being respected and loved as opposed to it being the best place to locate a business are two very different realities.

I honestly think locating a stand alone commercial business like a Men's Retail store in a neighborhood like Union Hill or along Main Street or another major thoroughfare would go a lot farther in a small stand alone development than any type of shopping center. It would also greatly help the local neighborhood with a positive development.

Of course this simply my personal opinion and I could be all wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time I was ever wrong.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by kboish »

Has anyone suggested the Hotel Midwest and surrounding property that sits at approx. 20th and main- directly across the street from the Reiger?


It seems like this gives you the opportunity to rehab some buildings- build new on the empty parcel- and there is some parking on Walnut behind that you may be able to access as well. Of course, this site may add more complications and cost then you were looking for.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by beautyfromashes »

^^^
Great idea.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by flyingember »

KCroots wrote: I honestly think locating a stand alone commercial business like a Men's Retail store in a neighborhood like Union Hill or along Main Street or another major thoroughfare would go a lot farther in a small stand alone development than any type of shopping center. It would also greatly help the local neighborhood with a positive development.
if you wanted to open a business that gives the most result and least risk, look at the Consentino's downtown market model but on the Aldi's price range. affordable grocery, healthy food ready to eat, basic supplies at a better quality than a dollar store.

in certain parts of town a place for quick food that's not fast food would have a lot of value to the neighborhood. people working multiple jobs want to eat healthy but don't have time for a sit down restaurant

grocery stores are also easy sells to the city, you'd get them to jump on board with doing whatever it takes, eliminating zoning issues and the like. the redevelopment authority owns a ton of land across the city that could just open up for the right project that helps revitalize the eastside and I wouldn't be surprised if the city wouldn't throw money at someone looking to do just this kind of project
mykn

Re: Union Hill Development

Post by mykn »

KCroots wrote:Thanks Fang,

In my research I have discovered finding a site that fits such a project is very difficult. You find a lot or property you like and it's either not for sale, or the zoning isn't right or it belongs to the land squatters etc. Then if you do find a property then either the neighborhood or the demographics don't lend itself to the project. Its very frustrating. Then add on top of that you put it out there that you're interested in such a project and then its likely you'll get spammed urrr.. I meant "solicited" by real estate agents trying to sell you land or buildings that benefit them but not your project.

In regards to the Men's Apparel store I want to open I always hear the same suggestion and thats "Oh the Country Club Plaza would be a perfect place for such a store" I disagree, and I've been reading threads, blogs and general information regarding the CC Plaza and I just don't think its even close to being the place I'd like to locate such a business.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not intentionally knocking the CC Plaza and as a Kansas City Landmark it is well respected however the reality of it being respected and loved as opposed to it being the best place to locate a business are two very different realities.

I honestly think locating a stand alone commercial business like a Men's Retail store in a neighborhood like Union Hill or along Main Street or another major thoroughfare would go a lot farther in a small stand alone development than any type of shopping center. It would also greatly help the local neighborhood with a positive development.

Of course this simply my personal opinion and I could be all wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time I was ever wrong.
Have you been to Houndstooth in River Market? I'm imagining that is the type of menswear store you're wanting to open.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCroots »

kboish wrote:Has anyone suggested the Hotel Midwest and surrounding property that sits at approx. 20th and main- directly across the street from the Reiger?


It seems like this gives you the opportunity to rehab some buildings- build new on the empty parcel- and there is some parking on Walnut behind that you may be able to access as well. Of course, this site may add more complications and cost then you were looking for.
There is nothing more I would like to do than to rehab an old building to help save the history, but as they say the devil is in the details. Sometimes as hard as you work in such a pursuit even running various feasibility studies often times reality can be a stark slap in the face.

I had actually looked at the Hotel Midwest as I really like the street level possibilities and the building, however there were issues with this location. The restaurant would have been great for the empty corner surface lot on Main and 20th street just south of the Hotel, but then parking was the largest overall issue. The lot south of the Hotel was too small to add an underground parking garage so that nixed even the possibility of underground parking. The surface lots on Walnut would not be conducive because people would have to cross an ally to get to both the restaurant and the hotel. That’s just not a good idea especially in harsh weather.

So it just limits what few options were already there for those two properties. What’s also doubtful is if the Hotel Midwest is developed (rehabbed) that the surface lot south of it on the corner of Main and 20th will remain a parking lot. That corner has too much traffic visibility (Which equals $$$$$) to let it remain a surface parking lot.

In regards to Walnut Street at 20th street, there are two large surface lots on the Northwest corner of that intersection (1918 & 1924 WALNUT ST) that would be conducive for a new construction project with an underground parking (if both lots which are owned by different parties could be obtained for the project). However with the city possibly planning to remove the Walnut Street viaduct connection to Main Street for the hotel project it would basically turn Walnut Street into a dead end and thus basically kill any exposure (visibility) and passing traffic. Not too much of an issue for an apartment complex but a huge issue for a restaurant or retail location.

So yes there are just too many complications (details) that would create issues to make the Hotel Midwest project work as you suggested. The fact I already had looked into it should indicate we’re on the same page (in terms of ideas) and that this was a good idea on the surface.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCroots »

flyingember wrote:
KCroots wrote: I honestly think locating a stand alone commercial business like a Men's Retail store in a neighborhood like Union Hill or along Main Street or another major thoroughfare would go a lot farther in a small stand alone development than any type of shopping center. It would also greatly help the local neighborhood with a positive development.
if you wanted to open a business that gives the most result and least risk, look at the Consentino's downtown market model but on the Aldi's price range. affordable grocery, healthy food ready to eat, basic supplies at a better quality than a dollar store.

in certain parts of town a place for quick food that's not fast food would have a lot of value to the neighborhood. people working multiple jobs want to eat healthy but don't have time for a sit down restaurant

grocery stores are also easy sells to the city, you'd get them to jump on board with doing whatever it takes, eliminating zoning issues and the like. the redevelopment authority owns a ton of land across the city that could just open up for the right project that helps revitalize the eastside and I wouldn't be surprised if the city wouldn't throw money at someone looking to do just this kind of project
I appreciate the suggestion but I have no interest in owning a grocery store. I do agree with you on the market or demand for such a type of business but a grocery store also has huge issues. Sure the city will help but other grocery stores and WalMart will do their best to put the squeeze on such a business really fast. You really have to be on your toes and at the top of your game for such a venture and I’m trying to retire not work my back side off.

As I mentioned the Diner restaurant is geared for a low cost meal with fast service and the main reason I want such a place is because I would be eating there for many of my meals. I have no desire to even own a restaurant just a desire to have a place to eat that is in the same building where I live.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCroots »

mykn wrote:
Have you been to Houndstooth in River Market? I'm imagining that is the type of menswear store you're wanting to open.


No I have never been to the Houndstooth so I had to Google them to learn more. This looks like a VERY small (almost sample size) version of the type of clothing store I had in mind.

But yes a nice upscale Men’s Apparel store with decent prices. To give you an idea, I would model it after Culwell & Son in Dallas Texas. However I would expand the shoe selection to offer a wider variety of shoes. I would like to have a store with about 8,000 to 10,000 sq feet on each level with two levels accessed by escalators and an elevator but the final location of the project will dictate just how large or small the store will be.

I feel reasonable prices can be had for off the rack items and shoes but bespoke clothing is what it is so there is no getting around the cost of custom made clothing.


http://www.culwell.com/
mykn

Re: Union Hill Development

Post by mykn »

KCroots wrote:
mykn wrote:
Have you been to Houndstooth in River Market? I'm imagining that is the type of menswear store you're wanting to open.


No I have never been to the Houndstooth so I had to Google them to learn more. This looks like a VERY small (almost sample size) version of the type of clothing store I had in mind.

But yes a nice upscale Men’s Apparel store with decent prices. To give you an idea, I would model it after Culwell & Son in Dallas Texas. However I would expand the shoe selection to offer a wider variety of shoes. I would like to have a store with about 8,000 to 10,000 sq feet on each level with two levels accessed by escalators and an elevator but the final location of the project will dictate just how large or small the store will be.

I feel reasonable prices can be had for off the rack items and shoes but bespoke clothing is what it is so there is no getting around the cost of custom made clothing.


http://www.culwell.com/
It is small, definitely more of a botique store where you can get an affordable suit and proper shoes. I love your menswear store idea! Can't wait to see what you do!
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCroots »

mykn wrote: It is small, definitely more of a botique store where you can get an affordable suit and proper shoes. I love your menswear store idea! Can't wait to see what you do!

Thank you however let me reiterate that I’m still in the early planning stages so where it all goes is still up in the air.

There was once (now bankrupt and out of business) a great shoe store from Fort Worth, Texas called Larry’s Shoes. It was the “go to” place for quality men’s shoes at reasonable prices. They also specialized in odd, hard to find sizes which was actually a larger market than many people might think. Their prices were reasonable but it was their huge selection that always stood out. That model of a simple straight forward shoe store that offers customers what they need at reasonable prices is what kept Larry’s always busy. Unfortunately it wasn’t the sales or the economy that killed Larry’s shoes, it was death from within. Here is a quote from a past employee,

I worked for Larry's Shoes from 1984 to 1991. When Larry decided to retire, his son took over the business with horrendous results. Overspending, like taking limousines from the airport to the shoe show, putting in a cappuccino bar in their retail locations and purchasing $90,000 cars attributed to their demise.

When I worked for Larry's Larry himself would come to the stores over the holidays and hand out Christmas bonus checks. (Yes, even though Larry was Jewish, he still called them Christmas bonus') When the son took over, gone were the Christmas bonus checks. Gone was the profit sharing match. I got out while the gettin' was good. I walked away with almost $19,000 in profit sharing from Larry's and made a good living on straight commission while I was there. It's too bad when the kids come in and run the business into the ground. The same thing happened with another Dallas men's store, Rothschild's. The son took it over and after a few years, it was gone too.


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/dallas/2 ... z37vhDLde7

http://www.city-data.com/forum/dallas/2 ... iness.html


Sad ending to a great shoe store but if one can learn from such a disaster the lesson is that the shoe store worked VERY well but mismanagement and over spending was its demise.

On the other end of the spectrum are the current offerings at large department stores. When you go to any department store like Macy’s they often just don’t have the selection or the specific size you need because they are trying to be all things to all people.

The same goes for overall men's clothing at department stores, they might have a small selection of off the rack suits or slacks and shirts but not the size you might be looking for or a wide variety. Therefore I really do think there is a need for such a place and if properly planned and executed it could be a success.

I also think by locating such a store outside of a high rent district or planned shopping will be another factor to help it in its success. I’d hate to locate such a new retail store in the CC Plaza where all the revenue was going to pay rent and where you had to charge more for shoes or clothing to just keep the lights on and the doors open. I think such a store can be located in a nice privately owned stand alone building where the rent would be much lower and therefore the savings passed onto to the customers.

I hope maybe one day to be able to do such a Men's Apparel Store and I’m slowly working on the details to accomplish it. If it happens great, if not then it apparently wasn’t meant to be.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by chaglang »

FangKC wrote:
Zorobabel wrote:
smh wrote:KEM Studio just shared an awesome rendering of a building called 29 Gillham they've designed as what I suspect to be part of this larger development.

Medium density, 22 units, does not appear to have street level commercial, but rather ground floor residential units.

Located at the corner of 29th and Gillham, across from Greenlease.

EDIT: Also, don't know how I didn't say this, but by "share" I mean they shared it on facebook.
Image

I found this image for the apartment project at 29th and Gillham, just east of the Cadillac Lofts. It appears on the KC Lofts website. The design seems a lot better than the original design posted earlier (see above). This design is by Helix.
The retaining wall on the east side of this lot is 90% complete.

Image

http://www.kc-lofts.com/bldgs/29gillham.htm
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

The KC Lofts link also says that it is to be condos. I believe the most recent info had said it would be apartments.

I have a feeling the link and rendering are from an older plan, and we will be getting something more like the KEM rendering.
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Re: Union Hill Development

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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by KCLofts »

Sadly, the KC Lofts site is out of date. I started the site in 2002 when there were only a handful of projects to keep track of. As activity increased over the years I didn't have enough time or desire to keep everything updated.

I passed the site on to another party about 2 years ago in hopes of breathing some new life into it.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by moderne »

Finally move in dates for the McGee building. !st floor 10/17 4th floor 11/7. only over two months delay. If you haven't noticed with the brick Gilham facade nearly complete the area is taking on a very european or back urbane east vibe. the low rise in the 3-5 floor range is very european and the angled intersection of Mcgee and Gilham creates a square which like broadway in NYC is really a triangle. With the one story Filling station with its patio and parklet with sculpture it is like a little piazza, platz, or place/.When the additional buildings a block north on the east and on the south this will create a very strong sence of "place" and a continuous organcity with buildings from early 20th century to present day. and also a nice mix of styles from vintage, new that looks old and very modern and contemporary. Hope with the population density increase some of the retail space will get filled with some shops, services and maybe a cafe or two. Next big hope for the hood is something done with the Velvet Freeze and development of more residential along Mcgee north toward CRown Center. There are 2 routes to CC. The highlly scenic one is up 30th and north on Grand. Nice overview of all eras of
Union Hill plus skyline views and monuments from Lib Mem , Ustation and KAuffman. The direct route on McGee angles and is 15 minute walk. Scenic route is 18 mins. McGee route is throgh dreary blocks of surface lots and CC mega garages.
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by Eon Blue »

I think with a serious road diet, Cherry Street/Gillham Road between Linwood and 27th could be a really neat stretch. Lots of room in the ROW to create space for people and the blocks appear to be lined with versatile buildings.
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chaglang
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by chaglang »

Why is that street so wide?
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FangKC
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Re: Union Hill Development

Post by FangKC »

I would assume because it's part of the boulevard system.
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