GO ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pash]

.

[aknowledgeableperson]

why waste a bat then?

anyway Royals win.

[pash]

.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Just a difference of opinion. Wasn't a good time. If the runner was already in scoring position maybe, but on first with two outs nope. Maybe also if the Royals were down one instead. If unsuccessful with the pitcher hitting you lead the 8th with the top of the order and Butler still available if needed.

[pash]

.

[Unknown JimmyD]

in the end, and since we won, it was fun to see herrera laughing at his futility as a batter. he should probably feel good about himself that he was at least able to get his bat on a ball.

this does, however, highlight how i think the leagues should have the same rules. it's always a disadvantage for AL teams to play at NL parks. their pitchers aren't used to having to hit (and may not have ever done so as we saw with herrera tonight) and the teams usually lose a valuable part of what makes up their team on offense. conversely, when NL teams play at AL parks, they don't "lose" a part of their team, but instead gain a valuable hitter.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It's not just the DH but the moves the manager makes with a pitcher/pitch hitting/double switch a NL manager may do and a AL manager may not have the experience to do. Yost has experience as a NL manager.

A steal and a hit, which you have a significant probability of pulling off if you try, nets you a very valuable run.

A successful steal is greater than 50/50 but Butler's average lowers the chance of a successful outcome. Of course if the steal is not successful I can see the bitching about taking the bat out of Butler's hands. And let's say no steal and Butler either walks or hits a single leaving the runner at either 2nd or 3rd that leaves you with the odds of getting another hit to drive in a run and then another walk or hit and so on and so on.

The Royals have been quite successful this season protecting the lead with Herrera, Davis, and Holland so why not stick with them. Yost and Herrera had a short talk and Yost left it with confidence in Herrera. So I think the odds of success (that is winning the game) would be greater letting Herrera bat.

Of course just about every move Yost has made so far has worked so just keep rolling those 7's.

[mean]

Hey guys, the Royals are up 2-1 in the World Series!

[shinatoo]

Why wasn't Dyson running like a mad man with Herrera at bat and two outs. Best case in that situation is he gets caught stealing, Herrera pitches the 7th and Butler bats at the top of the 8th. Dyson should have been trying to steal home.

[phuqueue]

this does, however, highlight how i think the leagues should have the same rules. it's always a disadvantage for AL teams to play at NL parks. their pitchers aren't used to having to hit (and may not have ever done so as we saw with herrera tonight) and the teams usually lose a valuable part of what makes up their team on offense. conversely, when NL teams play at AL parks, they don't "lose" a part of their team, but instead gain a valuable hitter.

In the Royals' case I think this is overblown. The only time Butler was a good hitter this year was when he wasn't DHing -- Royals DHs this year collectively hit .248/.307/.332/.639 (76 OPS+) in 638 plate appearances. This is, of course, still better than you can expect a pitcher to hit, but it's definitely not like having to play David Ortiz at first base to get his bat into the lineup or something. Conversely, the sample size is so small that it doesn't really matter, but for whatever it's worth, Giants DHs in interleague games hit .231/.286/.231/.516 in 42 plate appearances. The National League as a whole, in 635 interleague plate appearances, hit .210/.271/.347/.618 at DH. It might seem like a boost for NL teams (and I guess, compared to batting a pitcher -- .124/.156/.155/.312 in 5141 plate appearances -- it is), but NL teams don't typically carry around qualified DHs for the handful of games they'll play in AL stadiums and so will actually be at a disadvantage against their AL adversary's true DH. It probably hurts most AL teams to lose their DH (but it doesn't especially hurt the Royals, given their relative lack of production at the position anyway), but I'm not sure it really helps NL teams when they travel to AL stadiums.

[AllThingsKC]

Hey guys, the Royals are up 2-1 in the World Series!

F'ing Turd Birds.

[Highlander]

It probably hurts most AL teams to lose their DH (but it doesn't especially hurt the Royals, given their relative lack of production at the position anyway), but I'm not sure it really helps NL teams when they travel to AL stadiums.

Butler came up big in KC though. With the Royal's anemic offense, having the DH is a huge plus over a pitcher that has never hit.

I was disappointed when the AL went to the DH rule but I've grown to appreciate it in terms of the way it removes unwanted moves during a game due strategic necessity. KC's small ball attack certainly benefits from it even though Butler's not been all that productive. When you manipulate the bullpen like Yost does, having the DH certainly provides more freedom to maneuver in tight ball games.

[phuqueue]

Sure, Butler had a big game 2, but he also has a .667 OPS in the postseason to go along with his .702 OPS in the regular season (.642 as DH). That you can say after the fact that he had a big game doesn't mean that he was especially likely to have a big game (is he still better than a pitcher? Of course -- but the drop off for the Royals is not nearly as large as it would be for most AL teams).

I'd consider starting Butler at first against Bumgarner in game 5 (.819 OPS as 1B; .847 OPS vs. LHP), although the Royals reportedly are not considering that at all, but I don't think losing the DH handicaps the Royals as much as it would most other AL teams. I definitely don't think gaining a DH helps NL teams in AL stadiums.

[chingon]

It's not just the DH but the moves the manager makes with a pitcher/pitch hitting/double switch a NL manager may do and a AL manager may not have the experience to do. Yost has experience as a NL

I was disappointed when the AL went to the DH rule but I've grown to appreciate it in terms of the way it removes unwanted moves during a game due strategic necessity. KC's small ball attack certainly benefits from it even though Butler's not been all that productive. When you manipulate the bullpen like Yost does, having the DH certainly provides more freedom to maneuver in tight ball games.

Double switching and pinch hitting are just not that hard of things to figure out. And they certianly do not constitute "strategy". It's more like he kind of work kids do in elementary school when you have a list of questions on the left hand side of the paper and you have to "draw a line to match" with the best answer.

I grew up an AL fan under the DH rule as the only kind of baseball I'd ever known, so I have my biases, but I think if you remove nostalgia, it's simply a better, cleaner game.

Either way, I think the insistence on referring to the impossibly simple line up and roster changes in NL baseball as "strategic decisions" and thus holding up the NL game as somehow inherently more intellectual than the AL game makes the entire game of baseball seem like a true simpleton's sport. Try this on for size:

There is only 1 strategy in baseball: score more runs.

There are some "tactics", but they are not particularly complex, quite the opposite in fact. Moreover, baseball, in either of its big league iterations, is inarguably the least strategic sport in the pantheon. Kelvin Herrera's AB yesterday was like a validation of the AL game to my mind. Basically just a reductio ad absurdum of what Guthrie and Hudson both did at the plate as well, and what occurs in 99% of the ABs pitchers take in that league.

[pash]

.

[mean]

There is only 1 strategy in baseball: score more runs.

This is true, and it's why while I appreciate advanced sabermetric analysis on some nerd level, I don't really put much stock in it. It's fun to talk about sometimes, but at the end of the day history can't really predict the future very well.

[brewcrew1000]

I think yost should have let herrera pitch to sandoval. Then let davis pitch 2 innings he did it vs Baltimore and was awesome. Finnegan hasnt really been that great beside the wild card game. I hope yost doesnt blow this series.

[aknowledgeableperson]

There is only 1 strategy in baseball: score more runs.

That's the goal. Strategy is how you accomplish the goal.

[mean]

There is only 1 strategy in baseball: score more runs.

That's the goal. Strategy is how you accomplish the goal.

Arguably, luck is how you accomplish this goal. Certain things appear to be more probable, but when you actually roll the dice you don't always roll 7s.

[AllThingsKC]

Somewhere, Midtowncat is laughing that David Glass isn't doing enough to help the Royals win a World Series. His "I told you so's" are coming.