KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[flyingember]

you can't ignore him because some of what he writes has a valid point. it's just surrounded by drivel.

my personal favorite but not quite as bad as the tax post was the complaint about the impacts to business. he has a point there because I wish the city and downtown council had been way more prepared and aggressive. there's been no real public effort beyond some tiny signs to support businesses impacted and an app that gets a person nothing without 400 visits to downtown businesses. I live 10 minutes from downtown and am the perfect target audience to shop downtown. I should be getting targeted mailings.

The problem with his post is he was complaining about the impact of water services water line/sewer replacement work. which is what the site wanted -instead of- the train. he's got to the point that he complains about getting what he wants.

Knowing that, such a mailing could say "help us support downtown businesses while we put in new water and sewer lines, while utilities upgrade their infrasture and during streetcar track installation." you show the whole scope and indirectly tell people there's real improvements beyond a train coming to the corridor.

[loftguy]

there's been no real public effort beyond some tiny signs to support businesses impacted and an app that gets a person nothing without 400 visits to downtown businesses. I live 10 minutes from downtown and am the perfect target audience to shop downtown. I should be getting targeted mailings.

There is always room for improvement and additional creative approaches to create business, but I think that neighborhood organizations, individual businesses and especially customers have done well to overcome a difficult environment.

I don't know about the full length of the streetcar line. But public data shows that the restaurants in the City Market are almost all reporting that their sales are up for this year. This in spite of the fact that the market is the most impacted site along the streetcar route, as it has been fully surrounded by construction since spring. It's really cool that some of the public seems to be inspired to take on the challenge presented by ever-changing access to their destination.

The Farmhouse has been really smart, by advertising it's 'Streetcar Construction Happy Hour' as it's way of identifying a problem and making it a promotional tool that reminds customers of the need to support business through time of restricted access. They know better than to wait for the city to come up with creative marketing solutions for their business.

I think the complainers along the route are really the exception and there are always going to be folks who choose that route. I do know for sure that I am unlikely to return soon to a business where the employees are moaning about how awful it is (whatever the complaint may be). Most businesses seem to be jazzed by the activity and are talking about how cool it is to see rail in their street.

[flyingember]

All good points. I see this as the perfect time to create a framework for supporting businesses during construction work in a big way and it's being lost. Winter is the critical time to do this as foot traffic drops off.

Because this isn't the only work that will ever happen downtown that messes with access for weeks on end. If downtown keeps improving it's going to become the norm to have some big project in play.

Every notable impact across the city should have a planned response ready with all the area's partners onboard to do their part. Sending a targeted email, press release, social network post for short term. Then for longer add mailings, what signs to put up and where and interviews. Could even include the costs in the fees for developers to manage access. The city makes the developer look accomodating in turn.

It's a little thing to the city overall but it could be what puts a developer or business over the top that KC knows how to support business users. Perception is everything.

[chaglang]

you can't ignore him because some of what he writes has a valid point. it's just surrounded by drivel.

Sure you can. If he was expressing original, valid points, you couldn't ignore him.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

The impact to an individual ratepayer would be insignificant, and probably much less than new EPA regs. It's the price of being in the public right of way. Keep in mind that most utilities are taking the opportunity to modernize pipes and conduit in the process (especially MGE).

Now that all previous arguments have been debunked they continue to throw feces at the wall like crazed monkeys just to see what sticks.

[flyingember]

one thing this project is doing well is showing how single use, private, parking is a liability for a business when your one entrance gets blocked. all downtown businesses need to have contingencies planned.

that some places didn't prepare doesn't reflect well on their planning. because it doesn't take an expert to know that street and utility work will happen on any given segment of street.

[FangKC]

The thing that is driving me crazy is businesses complaining that streetcar construction is hurting their business--without understanding, or acknowledging, that whether the streetcar had been approved or not, that construction of new water and sewer lines would have happened anyway. Streets would have been torn up--regardless--as part of the ongoing public works project to rebuild that infrastructure to comply with EPA mandates. Even without the EPA mandates, many downtown water lines are over 100 years old and are failing, and would need to be replaced anyway at some point.

[Highlander]

one thing this project is doing well is showing how single use, private, parking is a liability for a business when your one entrance gets blocked. all downtown businesses need to have contingencies planned.

that some places didn't prepare doesn't reflect well on their planning. because it doesn't take an expert to know that street and utility work will happen on any given segment of street.

Are there not alternative entrances? I know Affaire's parking lot is kind of landlocked but I seem to remember being able access it by car from Walnut or the alley. At worse you can park on the E-W street and walk around the corner.

[KCPowercat]

I had no idea Affare had a parking lot.

[pash]

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[Highlander]

I had no idea Affare had a parking lot.

Tiny lot to the south of the building. I hope it is theirs - I parked there last time I was there.

[flyingember]

Even without the EPA mandates, many downtown water lines are over 100 years old and are failing, and would need to be replaced anyway at some point.

the EPA mandate isn't what you think it is. it's all about not sending untreated sewage into streams and rivers. it's long but the plan is post on the water services website somewhere

a major component of KC's plan is storing the combined outflow until a storm ends so the city is building a huge underground storage tank that can store more sewage + storm water. another large component has to do with improvements at treatment centers

replacing sewer lines really isn't a notable part of the EPA mandate.

that said, I agree that replacing old sewer lines needs to be done

[flyingember]

I had no idea Affare had a parking lot.

Tiny lot to the south of the building. I hope it is theirs - I parked there last time I was there.

They don't, they share four different lots depending on the time of day. And that's not one of them.

Ironically one is shared with the streetcar constructors. Which when the renovations are complete I bet they'll lose access to. This is a restaurant that needed to find alternatives last year.

One of their lots has no access impacts, and it's their only all-day access lot. It's at 18th and Walnut

[FangKC]

Even without the EPA mandates, many downtown water lines are over 100 years old and are failing, and would need to be replaced anyway at some point.

the EPA mandate isn't what you think it is. it's all about not sending untreated sewage into streams and rivers. it's long but the plan is post on the water services website somewhere

a major component of KC's plan is storing the combined outflow until a storm ends so the city is building a huge underground storage tank that can store more sewage + storm water. another large component has to do with improvements at treatment centers

replacing sewer lines really isn't a notable part of the EPA mandate.

that said, I agree that replacing old sewer lines needs to be done

Mayor Sly James, City Council members and community stakeholders joined KC Streetcar Constructors (KCSC) today in breaking ground on the downtown streetcar starterline. The first phase of work includes upgrades to Kansas City’s century-old water and sewer system, which is being coordinated with the streetcar rail installation, and is part of the City’s long-term watermain replacement program.

“This is a huge day for Kansas City because we are redefining what transportation means, what it looks like, and how it impacts neighborhoods,” said Mayor Sly James. “Coordinating this first phase with needed improvements to our water and sewer system is good business for the City and will deliver a good return on investment for our residents.”

“This project uniquely blends Kansas City’s past, its present, and its future. With this milestone, we turn another page in our City’s great story,” added Councilman Russ Johnson, chair of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

The 2.2 mile north-south Downtown Streetcar will travel along Main Street and connect the River Market to Crown Center and Union Station. The total project includes two phases, beginning with the water and sewer system upgrades. Once those are completed, KCSC will begin constructing the track for the starterline and the vehicle maintenance facility.

http://kcmayor.org/newsreleases/kansas- ... etcar-line

[FangKC]

Yes, and part of the water and sewer public works plan involves separation of sewer and storm drains in some designated areas. Most parts of "old" Kansas City--which is about 50 sq. miles-- have combined sewer and storm drains. It's not just use of rain gardens, and underground storage tanks, to meet the EPA mandate. That solution will not work in all areas of the city.

In some designated parts of the city, this will mean creating separate storm drains and sewers. Parts of the Main Street sewer date back to before the Civil War, and many parts of it are made of installed stone, arched structures--not cast concrete or cast metal in-ground pipes.

When the drainage system has rain overflow, this can also cause potential backup of sewage into downtown buildings. There is a lot of runoff from streets, sidewalks, and building roofs that drain into the combined sewer/storm drain system. There is not a lot of room in many parts of downtown to build water retention tanks, rain gardens, and pooling areas for rainwater. Downtown is also challenging to drain because it sits on hills and valleys. With so much pavement, it's hard to control run-off using green techniques. Almost all of downtown is non-absorbing land--meaning that rain cannot drain into the ground.

The system needs to be completely rebuilt since it's over 100 years old. I imagine that when it's rebuilt, the EPA mandates will have to be met. Downtown buildings produce a lot more sewage per block than residential single--family housing. Runoff from streets, sidewalks, and building roofs also produce far more rain volume than ordinary blocks. It stands to reason that it this area would require separate sewage and storm drain systems.

A lot of the water runoff from the Main Street corridor ends up in the OK Creek drainage basin (which runs under Union Station) and drains into Turkey Creek in the West Bottoms. That area floods frequently--often from backup and pump capacity failure. I can't imagine that the City and the EPA would continue to allow overflow sewage-tainted rainwater from the combined sewer/storm drain system to drain into that basin, and eventually the Kaw River. Especially considering the City is rebuilding the sewage and drainage system under Main Street.

Thus, it would make sense that the City would separate the sewer and storm drains under Main Street as one part of the effort to comply with EPA mandates. Of all the required sewer separation projects that might be required by the EPA within the city's sewage system, this would seem to be a top priority. I can't imagine that it could be accomplished solely using green techniques being used in other parts of the city (rain gardens, underground storage basins, drainage pools, water-permeating sidewalks and streets).

Just imagine the rain runoff from the roofs on Crown Center buildings, the buildings on Hospital Hill and the Freighthouse District, and the IRS facility on Pershing alone--all which flow eventually into storm drains in the OK Creek basin.

From the Greater Downtown Area Plan:

Address maintenance and upgrades to aging infrastructure

The majority of the existing water, sanitary and storm infrastructure systems in the GDAP study area are 80-100 years old, or older. Maintenance or replacement of aging infrastructure, streets, curbs, gutters, sidewalks, water, and sewer lines is one of the most costly challenges in this area of the city.

Address Combined Sewer Overflows

While the GDAP planning area represents only 15% of the combined sewer area, it accounts for more than half of the annual overflow volume of combined sewage flows. The two basins that encompass the GDAP area - Turkey Creek/CID and Northeast Industrial District - contribute 53% of the total annual overflow volume from combined sewer overflows in the City.

and,

Proposed Water Infrastructure

The following projects have been recommended in the Overflow Control Plan (OCP) and KCOne Stormwater Master Plan for the Turkey Creek/CID drainage basin and Northeast Industrial
District:

• Overflow Control Plan - Proposed System Improvements:

– Sewer Separation. Separate Sewers in approximately 66 acres upstream of 31st & Broadway, and provide stormwater treatment facility.
– Rehabilitate Existing Turkey Creek pumping station; Construct new 48” dia. force main to Westside WWTP (replace existing main).
– Increase system storage upstream of Santa Fe Pumping Station through construction of next phase of Freighthouse District Storm Sewer Improvements.
– Construct Approx. 7,400 ft. of 26 ft. diameter deep storage tunnel parallel to existing OK Creek Culvert from Turkey Creek Pumping Station to 21st & Grand.
– Construct New pumping station for dewatering tunnel (pump to Westside WWTP through new force main from Turkey Creek Pumping Station).
– Provide storage in existing OK Creek culverts through construction of automated control gates.
– Turkey Creek basin is identified as a primary Focus Area for implementing green solutions.
– Rehabilitate sewers and provide green solutions in the portion of the NEID basin within Greater Downtown.

• KC-One Stormwater Master Plan Improvements for Turkey Creek/NEID.

– This plan includes $477M in stormwater conveyance for Turkey Creek/NEID, comprised of a series of 12 storm tunnel segments ranging in diameter from 4-ft to 20-ft in diameter. The 26-foot diameter OK Creek tunnel and pump station planned in the Overflow Control Plan will also be utilized by this project, providing mutual benefit. The Turkey Creek portion of the project is currently under construction (2015 estimated completion date).

https://data.kcmo.org/Area-Plans/Greate ... /e9ss-ttb9

Combined Sewer System: The City will implement CSO control measures that, when combined with existing controls, will eliminate or capture for treatment approximately 88 percent of the typical wet weather flows in the City's combined sewer system, including up to 96 percent capture in many neighborhood streams. The settlement includes specific requirements for sewer separation projects, construction of a high rate treatment facility, installation of high rate treatment at several existing wastewater treatment plants, development of diversion structures to reroute wet weather flows, construction of tunnels and storage tanks to provide additional capacity for wet weather flows, improvements to gate control systems, and small sewer rehabilitation projects.

http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/kansas- ... settlement

Here is the sanitary sewer separation plan just for the East Bottoms.

https://www.kcwaterservices.org/wp-cont ... 111214.pdf

[flyingember]

Look at the scale

66 acres is 0.3 x 0.3 mile or approx 5x5 city blocks downtown
It's a tiny area compared to that 50 square miles

Turkey creek is basically updating a storm sewer. That's a great project but it means nothing for required sewer repairs in neighborhoods.

The streetcar project is the perfect time to do sewer work. If I were the city I would actually jump on Main St all the way to the Plaza and Indep Ave all the way to the Blue river and so on for all the inital phase 2 segments for sewer and water. Get that painful part out of the way. We need that work anyways and it will speed up rail installation when we have money.

Use the same work to help fund part of the process for MGE and KCPL to get them to speed it up like covering their repaving cost.

[chingon]

Boondoggle.

[DaveKCMO]

The city and streetcar peeps should be pushing back harder against this narrative that track construction is so hugely disruptive to local businesses. The Star article tried as hard as it could to gloss over the fact that most of the disruption is due to utility and sewer work that would have been done at some point anyway. And you know all of this nonsense is going to resurface (accompanied by even fewer facts) when expansion makes it back onto the agenda.

the headline was inevitable, and has been standard issue for every single rail line constructed in a street anywhere in the world. construction is a hassle, no question. let them vent.

also inevitable is the first news report of a car crashing into a streetcar ("Safety concerns surface after streetcar collision" -- you're welcome KCTV!). said article will gloss over the fact that it was the driver's fault (because the streetcar operators are trained professionals operating under strict oversight, unlike all car drivers) and that their insurance will take the hit.

[Highlander]

The city and streetcar peeps should be pushing back harder against this narrative that track construction is so hugely disruptive to local businesses. The Star article tried as hard as it could to gloss over the fact that most of the disruption is due to utility and sewer work that would have been done at some point anyway. And you know all of this nonsense is going to resurface (accompanied by even fewer facts) when expansion makes it back onto the agenda.

the headline was inevitable, and has been standard issue for every single rail line constructed in a street anywhere in the world. construction is a hassle, no question. let them vent.

also inevitable is the first news report of a car crashing into a streetcar ("Safety concerns surface after streetcar collision" -- you're welcome KCTV!). said article will gloss over the fact that it was the driver's fault (because the streetcar operators are trained professionals operating under strict oversight, unlike all car drivers) and that their insurance will take the hit.

Well predicted. That certainly was the MO when the Houston light rail suffered its inevitable first car - rail collision.