Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

[chaglang]

My proudest moment as a Ragger.

[phuqueue]

Well, for some of your mostly stupid in the response that was the best I could do at the time. I guess if you can blame the street for an accident that is the responsibility of the jaywalker then I guess the driver of a vehicle can use the same excuse. I can see it now. A driver states an accident wasn't his fault, street design was the reason the person who was hit choose to jaywalk. What about the people who own the cars the walker darted between to enter the traffic? Don't they have some fault for parking on the street? Do we blame the traffic light if a walker crosses on red and is hit?

Your take just absolves the walker of any and all responsibility for an accident of his/her making.

Or maybe the walker who causes the accident can use the excuse that the Geraldine character of Flip Wilson used as an excuse. "The devil made me do it."

If the pedestrian was jaywalking, why does the driver need an excuse at all? This is America, where you can get off with literally no charges after you've killed a pedestrian if you can pin it on them. Your twisted attitude already dominates our laws, politics, and popular thinking, and as a result we kill far more pedestrians than Europeans do. That's a fact, and your hollow incredulity isn't a counterargument.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Here is the quote I question.

But holding pedestrians responsible for pedestrian fatalities is counterproductive. A pedestrian who needs to cross the street is going to cross the street, even if the street is specifically engineered to discourage him from doing it.

If I am a pedestrian crossing the street where I am not suppose to or entering an intersection against a red light I have to take some responsibility for my actions. I cannot ignore the potential danger I have created which is what the above implies.

drivers can't be bothered long enough to consider that the 4000 pounds of steel surrounding them make them an incredibly deadly weapon.

And that is why pedestrians need to be aware of their surroundings. When downtown in the past I among many others also jaywalked or crossed on red. But we were not taking unnecessary chances, in other words we knew we could cross safely without a worry that a driver would have to swerve or hit the brakes to avoid us. Much like a driver has to be careful so should a pedestrian, with both taking responsibility for their actions.

The world is a complex place, and whether you believe it or not, the design of a street partly determines how many people die crossing it.

Hell, yes it is complex and know about street design and even the placement of buildings. There is a crosswalk there now but years ago one did not exist on 12th Street between City Hall and the Courthouse. And there was parking on both sides of the street. I would imagine it is still the case that there is a lot of traffic between the two buildings and there are stoplights at both nearby corners. Many people would cut their trip short by jaywalking instead of going to one of the corners and waiting for a light. Most made it without any problem (I wonder why?). Occasionally there would be close calls. Some due to a driver speeding, others by people thinking they could quickly run across.

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[Eon Blue]

This seems like an appropriate time to post this:
http://m.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797

[chaglang]

This probably oversimplifies things, but it's driving that's considered a privilege, not walking. To me that implies that drivers should be held to a much greater level of responsibility than pedestrians.

[aknowledgeableperson]

When downtown in the past I among many others also jaywalked or crossed on red. But we were not taking unnecessary chances, in other words we knew we could cross safely without a worry that a driver would have to swerve or hit the brakes to avoid us.

Apparently AKP's distinction between us and them comes down to an ability to predict the future with acceptable precision.

Evidently you do not understand the difference between taking "a chance" and taking "unnecessary chances". If there is "a chance" I don't make it then don't take the chance.

[phuqueue]

akp seems to envision a street in which the pedestrian looks and sees cars racing by but thinks, "I might be able to Frogger my way through here."

[LenexatoKCMO]

akp seems to envision a street in which the pedestrian looks and sees cars racing by but thinks, "I might be able to Frogger my way through here."

Oh you mean Main street through midtown eh.

[mean]

Or the entirety of the Avenue. People, often including mothers herding several small children, routinely dash across the Avenue while traffic races around them. It's maddening, and every time I see it I'm terrified that some kid is going to get hit. If an adult wants to take the risk, fine--the idea of jaywalking as a crime is stupid (as most of us probably know, there was a time long before any of us were around that horseless carriages in the street were considered to be the nuisance). But putting a kid in that situation is totally inexcusable.

[chaglang]

Or the entirety of the Avenue. People, often including mothers herding several small children, routinely dash across the Avenue while traffic races around them. It's maddening, and every time I see it I'm terrified that some kid is going to get hit. If an adult wants to take the risk, fine--the idea of jaywalking as a crime is stupid (as most of us probably know, there was a time long before any of us were around that horseless carriages in the street were considered to be the nuisance). But putting a kid in that situation is totally inexcusable.

I was going to ask which Avenue, but realized that it applies equally to Grand, Independence, Troost, and Prospect.

[mean]

Independence is where I see it almost every day, and it generally (to my knowledge, anyway) is considered to be the Avenue. The other Avenues must bow before it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Just some food for thought:
Newtown Bee · ByJohn Voket

Prompted by the release of a comprehensive nationwide survey on pedestrian safety, a local traffic and behavioral expert suggests that Americans today may be better off if they just stay inside their motor vehicles.

“Don’t get me wrong, I’m not downplaying pedestrian fatalities, especially considering the strides we’ve made in vehicle occupant protection over the years,” Dr Neil Chaudhary said. “But there’s no similar program initiative for pedestrians. Unfortunately, we can’t make heads any harder.”

Dr Chaudhary, who holds a PhD in Experimental Psychology, is a researcher and analyst specializing in traffic safety with Preusser Research Group.
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In his analysis, Dr Chaudhary pointed out that according to report data, 58 percent of pedestrian deaths in the decade studied occurred between 8 pm and 6 am. He also noted that the report lacked information on whether or to what extent alcohol or drugs may have played a role in those deaths, on either side of the steering wheel.

“An intoxicated pedestrian is more likely to step out into traffic, and the increased incidents of DUI enforcement may ironically cause drunk drivers to become drunk pedestrians who are more likely to get hit, or fall when they’re walking,” he observed. “The AARP study also doesn’t provide too much information about the role distractions like texting and using the phone as a pedestrian contribute to pedestrian incidents.”

He said Connecticut could make roadways a lot safer for pedestrians, but it might not deliver the desired safety effect.

“It’s an excellent idea, but at the same time you need to focus on education about things like distracted driving — and walking,” Dr Chaudhary said.

[KCMax]

It would also be safer to ban all cars, but that's not going to happen either.

[longviewmo]

NYC's lowering their default speed limit to 25 mph. Interesting graphics in this article: http://www.streetsblog.org/2014/06/20/n ... ly-senate/. Looks like it should make quite an impact.

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[taxi]

That is a nifty idea but, true, it is a fantasy. The proposed massive development in Columbus Park wanted to make 4th St. narrow and ped only. The fire dept. said no way, they gotta be able to turn their truck around at any point in the road. So, it went from something like 10' wide and green with no vehicles to 22' paved and striped. If it ever gets built, that is.

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