KCRag Forum

Omaha has warehouses across the street.
It's hard to claim a stadium has an entertainment district effect when right next to it is an industrial district

Tulsa, the street view is a year old, but it has industrial on two sides.

There's clearly exceptions but you can find stadium after stadium that didn't help a city right next to the stadium.

And if people don't want to develop next to it, how can anyone claim the stadium drew the redevelopment?

Remember, The Crossroads was an industrial district originally. Now it's well on it's way to not being one.

At the current rate I think every building along the terminal railroad is going to be office or residential
Next to the Kauffman Center is going the same way.
There used to be railroad lines down all the alleys west of Grand. only a single block behind Grand connects to the railroad anymore.

So, as long as we're comparing neighborhoods around baseball stadiums, anyone notice the neighborhood around NYC's Citi Field?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2013 ... rhood.html

AllThingsKC wrote:So, as long as we're comparing neighborhoods around baseball stadiums, anyone notice the neighborhood around NYC's Citi Field?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2013 ... rhood.html

Are you referring to the proposed $3 billion redevelopment of one of the ugliest places in NYC that would never ever have been proposed without a stadium?

I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic, but that seems pretty dubious considering there was a different stadium in essentially the same spot for some 50ish years before that.

I guess I just don't see how that area was going to organically grow beyond what it has become without some major influx of investment. Regardless of the past nearby development, I don't think it would be on the development radar at all without a stadium. NYC is a city with nothing but dense urban areas for developers to choose from. There are still a lot of options for investment like this, but the only reason it is being singled out, as far as I can tell, is because of the baseball stadium.

Considering the parking lots to the north, west and south of the stadium it may be in an urban location but it is not dense. Then you have highways on three sides. You have a small area to the east and northeast of the stadium for development but given the looks at the area it might just have been one of those "urban areas for developers to choose from" with or without the stadium. Especially since the newer stadium has been open since 2009.

AllThingsKC wrote:So, as long as we're comparing neighborhoods around baseball stadiums, anyone notice the neighborhood around NYC's Citi Field?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2013 ... rhood.html

Wow - that doesn't even look like anything I've ever seen in the US!

kcjak wrote: Wow - that doesn't even look like anything I've ever seen in the US!

Looks like NY to me!

kcjak wrote:

AllThingsKC wrote:So, as long as we're comparing neighborhoods around baseball stadiums, anyone notice the neighborhood around NYC's Citi Field?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2013 ... rhood.html

Wow - that doesn't even look like anything I've ever seen in the US!

Go to 12th and Spruce, on the east side of Kansas City.

Park your car and slowly walk the three blocks to 9th.

I'm serious.

KCDowntowners tweeted (through Jared Miller) that Bill Dietrich, President & CEO, Downtown Council of Kansas City, says there will be a conversation about a downtown baseball stadium within the next five years.

https://twitter.com/jrmiller962/status/ ... 9356013568

so we have to wait five years to have a CONVERSATION about building SOMETHING in the north loop? no thanks!

The concept drawing is horribly fake for placing something downtown.

I count 13 mistakes from multiple missing buildings to streets that don't exist.

Bet you are killer at where's Waldo.

I'm just glad there is a conversation happening at all, but it would be a reach for them to build a stadium facing that direction. There are only 6 ballparks in the majors that face a similar trajectory, and I think a number of them are known for being a problem when the sun is setting.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/lost-in-th ... ientation/

Orient the stadium however makes sense.
Build it on that site and fill in the north loop at the same time as the new stadium erection.
A new boulevard from Charlotte to Broadway. Development to either side.

The only downside to orienting the stadium to the North is that you lose the skyline. The West Bottoms is still wide open and can face that way from the South. The Glass family can even buy up parking nearby and demand the GONDOLA GET BUILT!!! (I'm only half joking)

I'm not a big fan of the North Loop site for a baseball stadium. One reason is that if the stadium was built as rendered, it would take out a historic building near 6th and Central that has been renovated into residential. I would much rather see those vacant North Loop parcels developed for residential, commercial, and retail on intact city blocks. I think that would add more to Downtown Loop overall for the majority of the year than having a stadium on that site.

I would prefer to see a downtown baseball stadium be located in the East Crossroads around E. 16th and Holmes. Another site would be around 20th and Locust. There would be less chance of any significant buildings being demolished there.

I also worry than any location downtown would result in demand from local residents for abundant surface parking nearby, and/or making existing surface lots even more lucrative for their owners during baseball games --to the extent that they have little reason to develop them with buildings, or sell them for that purpose.

FangKC wrote:I'm not a big fan of the North Loop site for a baseball stadium. One reason is that if the stadium was built as rendered, it would take out a historic building near 6th and Central that has been renovated into residential. I would much rather see those vacant North Loop parcels developed for residential, commercial, and retail on intact city blocks. I think that would add more to Downtown Loop overall for the majority of the year than having a stadium on that site.

I would prefer to see a downtown baseball stadium be located in the East Crossroads around E. 16th and Holmes. Another site would be around 20th and Locust. There would be less chance of any significant buildings being demolished there.

I also worry than any location downtown would result in demand from local residents for abundant surface parking nearby, and/or making existing surface lots even more lucrative for their owners during baseball games --to the extent that they have little reason to develop them with buildings, or sell them for that purpose.

I will concede, if you include taking out the north loop in your planning...

The only place I've thought a downtown stadium made sense is where Belvidere Park and the current public housing site that's already being torn down. It's big enough, it's not a central prime piece of land, it has good road and transit access from many directions both urban and suburban, it's at a place that has lots of room for redevelopment while being within easy reach of existing sites. It's not close to another major location like Sprint Center, Bartle Hall to create overlapping traffic. It's local govt owned land already. It doesn't take away from a frequently used park. It's a place that a new stadium isn't a major NIMBY problem, the homes in Columbus Park nearby already have sound walls

Flyingember, that Belvidere Park site also occurred to me. I ruled it out for a couple of reasons. It's not very walkable to downtown apartments, restaurants and bars. It's also too far from the downtown streetcar, especially if there is an extension to the Plaza, then the Crossroads' sites would make more sense for a stadium in the future.

However, it could be considered as a possibility long-term depending on how long it takes to decide about moving the stadium. The neighborhood around Paseo and Independence is an active redevelopment zone undergoing planning now. The City hopes to redevelop it into a walkable mixed-use neighborhood over time. Demolition of buildings has already started (Capri Motel). Phase One of the Paseo Gateway redevelopment extends south down to E. 9th. Having the stadium there might pump up the development interest faster--especially if the City extends the streetcar along Independence Avenue to at least Woodland Avenue. Or along E. 11th Street to around Forest, then go north to Admiral, and turn east to Woodland. Running a streetcar line is somewhat limited to, and through that, neighborhood because of steep grades--especially from Main. And some of the north-south streets don't extend all the way to Independence Avenue in a straight line uninterrupted.

The other issue there would again be parking. There aren't any large, existing parking garages now, and without them, I fear the Royals would want a lot of surface parking lots adjacent--which would defeat the purpose of the redevelopment.