American Royal leaders propose tearing down Kemper

[Eon Blue]

I agree that if it were going to flood again, it probably would have done so by now (all disclaimers, of course.)

Maybe the West Bottoms is actually a good application for the "ground floor parking, habitable space above" model of new construction? Place just enough active uses at street level to enliven things, then build any residential space above the likely flood elevation should the levees be breached.

Or, we could build parking on the current ground level and raise the streets to the second-story to create a new surface. That wouldn't be a massive undertaking at all, right? And KC has done massive terraforming before, just look at River Market/Downtown.

[loftguy]

I agree that if it were going to flood again, it probably would have done so by now (all disclaimers, of course.)

Maybe the West Bottoms is actually a good application for the "ground floor parking, habitable space above" model of new construction? Place just enough active uses at street level to enliven things, then build any residential space above the likely flood elevation should the levees be breached.

Or, we could build parking on the current ground level and raise the streets to the second-story to create a new surface. That wouldn't be a massive undertaking at all, right? And KC has done massive terraforming before, just look at River Market/Downtown.

Gretchen's West Elm sofa and heirloom Cabbage Patch dolls are not the only concerns in West Bottoms flooding. All electronics and mechanicals would need to be elevated as well. It could be done, but zero planning and investment is being done in that regard.

Your idea of landfilling the bottoms is novel. We were heavily influenced by Boston thought and money throughout the 1800's, and fully one third of Boston was previously bay, marsh, or tidal pool. A couple hundred years of concentrated engineering there created the urban coastline we now know. It could have been done here.

It would only cost a few billion now.

[Eon Blue]

Apparently we need only demolish Kemper and then those billions will be forthcoming from new American Royal revenues.

[chaglang]

When was the last time the Bottoms flooded?

[loftguy]

When was the last time the Bottoms flooded?

1951.

1993 was a near miss, worth noting, because we were so very, very close...

[aknowledgeableperson]

When was the last time the Bottoms flooded?

1951.

1993 was a near miss, worth noting, because we were so very, very close...

In '51 the flooding came from the Kaw, not the MO river. In '93 the river levels almost reached the top (within a few inches I believe). Since then, if memory is correct, they did raise the levy some.

[FangKC]

Raising the height of the levee will not prevent the risk of flooding. It only reduces it.

Just a couple of years ago, we had very high water in the Missouri all summer because of the need to let water out of upstream dams due to unpredicted levels of snow melting and runoff in the Rockies.

The problem with that scenario is that when a levee has water up against it for long periods of time, it becomes saturated and there is risk of failure. There is also the risk of ground swells where water comes up on the other (dry side) of the levee. This caused the catastrophic flooding in NW Missouri and SW Iowa. This is due to the bottom land being sandy and porous.

So overtopping of a levee or floodwall is not always the primary risk.

The West Bottoms will always have a risk of flooding for several reasons.

It sits at the bend in the Missouri River at the same place where the Kansas River empties into the Missouri. This creates a scenario that when both the Missouri and Kansas Rivers are at flood stage that the Missouri can push water back up the Kansas River channel.

The West Bottoms isn't completely surrounded by levees. The south side of the Missouri has a flood wall built along the bend in the Missouri, where during flood stage the most pressure is from the river current. The flood wall is always at risk of failure under those circumstances.

Not all flooding comes from the rivers. During flood stage on the rivers, and during a sudden downpour of rain, the drainage basin of Turkey Creek floods and sometimes the pumps can be overwhelmed, which can result in flooding in the West Bottoms.

A levee can always collapse due to ground seepage.

The high water two or three years ago all summer was not just the only concern. One of the primary concerns that summer was that there could potentially be a series of dam failures on the Upper Missouri River. For a time, water was moving into the dam infastructure faster than they could let it out through the dams. These are not concrete dams, but earth dams. The fear that if one of the upper dams had failed, the release of water would take out all the lower dams and levees as well, and flood the Missouri River basin from bluff-to-bluff clear to St. Louis. Had that occurred, the West Bottoms would have flooded. That much water suddenly moving down the Missouri would have probably taken out the flood walls on the south side of the bend of the Missouri. Remember that the river was already at flood stage. A wall of water moving down the river bottom would have increased pressure on the floodwalls.

I am from a small town in NW Missouri. During that summer, the entire bottom flooded. The Corps of Engineers came into my hometown to brief citizens on what this would mean to their community. They were talking mass evacuations.

So just because there haven't been any major floods in the West Bottoms in 60 years doesn't mean that there won't be in the future.

Personally, I wouldn't live in the West Bottoms for that reason, because even if my apartment or loft was on the second or third flood of the building, and at little risk of flooding, a major flood would mean I couldn't get into my apartment for days or weeks if it did flood.

There are plenty of other areas to live in Kansas City that don't have that threat.

Flooding of a business is quite different than having to endure flooding of a residential area, or being put out of your domicile because of it for long periods.

[DaveKCMO]

Personally, I wouldn't live in the West Bottoms for that reason, because even if my apartment or loft was on the second or third floor of the building, and at little risk of flooding, a major flood would mean I couldn't get into my apartment for days or weeks if it did flood.

There are plenty of other areas to live in Kansas City that don't have that threat.

+1

[flyingember]

Personally, I wouldn't live in the West Bottoms for that reason, because even if my apartment or loft was on the second or third floor of the building, and at little risk of flooding, a major flood would mean I couldn't get into my apartment for days or weeks if it did flood.

There are plenty of other areas to live in Kansas City that don't have that threat.

+1

There's something like 4000 people in NKC that feel otherwise.

Price the place right and people will move there

[im2kull]

Personally, I wouldn't live in the West Bottoms for that reason, because even if my apartment or loft was on the second or third floor of the building, and at little risk of flooding, a major flood would mean I couldn't get into my apartment for days or weeks if it did flood.

There are plenty of other areas to live in Kansas City that don't have that threat.

+1

There's something like 4000 people in NKC that feel otherwise.

Price the place right and people will move there

Plus some people just flat out "Like" the area. Just as some people seem to like Tokyo, and San Fran...even with their astronomical odds of total catastrophe.

[FangKC]

My point of view is that why buy a dwelling, or rent one, in a part of the City that is at risk of flooding when there are buildings, and literally thousands of vacant parcels, in the already established areas of our municipality, and the greater Metro, that are well above flood zones? It seems to me wiser to build new residential in these places long before one considers building new housing in the West Bottoms.

Residential is a completely different situation than offices, businesses, or warehouses. When those are flooded, you are not in a situation where you no longer have no place to live, or are put out of your home for weeks or months while cleanup is done, and utilities are restored.

It's just not for me, and as a citizen, I don't really want to see the City approving and encouraging new residential (using incentives) in potential flood zones.

And just two or three summers ago, after reading how vulnerable upstream dams were to collapse, and existing levees were to failure, I am more convinced that building new residential on vacant lots in the West Bottoms is just not prudent in the long-term.

If you are feeling cocky about living in the West Bottoms, or North Kansas City, read this article from 2011. The Ft. Peck Dam is a disaster waiting to happen. The situation with the 70+ year-old earthen dam holding back the Missouri is that it's a flawed design, and it hasn't been corrected since the 2011 flooding. If it failed, it would most likely take out every dam below it on the Missouri.

Not only would there be flooding, but a flood of this type could damage, or destroy nuclear plants, sitting on the Missouri as well as chemical plants and refineries--turning the floodwaters into a toxic brew.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/06/08/ ... oportions/

http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1 ... e+Missouri

[aknowledgeableperson]

Residential is a completely different situation than offices, businesses, or warehouses. When those are flooded, you are not in a situation where you no longer have no place to live, or are put out of your home for weeks or months while cleanup is done, and utilities are restored.

Well, what about the job losses from extended flooding?

[FangKC]

Yes, job losses have a long-term negative effect on a family or person, and the business owner. No doubt. However, that is a different thing than not having a place to live, or being forced out of one's home for a long period of time, or permanently.

If one loses a job, at least one can go home and crawl into a warm bed and curl up in a fetal position and cry.

There are few things as shocking to one's spirit and soul than not being able to go home.

While it's a different situation, I used to live in NYC after 9/11, and I had several friends who lived near the World Trade Center complex, and couldn't go home for months afterwards until their buildings and apartments were cleaned of the toxic dust that permeated their homes. Some had to get rid of practically everything they owned. It was one of the most stressful events of their lives.

Many had to stay with friends because they couldn't afford a new lease or mortgage. They were stuck. There were in legal limbo over whether they had to continue paying their rent because of their lease. They had to wait months for insurance settlements and payouts to find another place to live, or temporary quarters while their apartment was being cleaned. If they didn't have proper insurance coverage, they often had to break their lease, and possibly ruin their credit score, which would affect their ability to take out a new lease, or buy another apartment. They had uncertainty and stress in their lives for months. It was a mess.

[aknowledgeableperson]

If one loses a job, at least one can go home and crawl into a warm bed and curl up in a fetal position and cry.

And worry about losing one's home.

Both situations are quite stressful, in different ways.

[grovester]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/governme ... b53db9df-1

It's hard to fight the big boys if you want to continue to do business in this town.

[FangKC]

Part of me hates that they should have to worry about the "big boys," and not being able to get projects done because of them.

It hurts a city in the long run if a small group of people have too much power in this regard.

[grovester]

Part of me hates that they should have to worry about the "big boys," and not being able to get projects done because of them.

It hurts a city in the long run if a small group of people have too much power in this regard.

All of me hates this. Shenanigans.

[Eon Blue]

Was there a final determination of how many of the 70-something "prominent citizens" actually within KCMO?

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

Are there any mockups featuring its replacement?

[pash]

.