American Royal leaders propose tearing down Kemper

[aknowledgeableperson]

Much of the land, the Governors' Building (built by AR), funded some of initial construction of Kemper (along with Kemper), funded some of Hale Arena and it's barn area, built the warm-up arena and the auction arena. In addition the GO bonds used to build Kemper were approved by the voters for the construction of an arena to house the AR show and the organization had to give its approval for those bonds to be used for the arena.

mucho = $12,500,000

[DaveKCMO]

joint council committee (finance and PZED) will meet 10:30am, thursday, nov. 13 to discuss ordinance 140949.

http://cityclerk.kcmo.org/liveweb/Docum ... NFXtOvR04Q

presumably ed ford plans to wrap this up in one hearing and send it to the floor that afternoon. expect a packed house as public comment will be allowed.

[grovester]

Effort to put Kemper on the Historic Register.

http://www.gofundme.com/h4ro2w

[FangKC]

Historic KC takes steps to save Kemper, rips American Royal plan

Cofran said Historic Kansas City is raising the remaining $3,000 needed for Kansas City-based Rosin Preservation to continue the historic-designation application efforts it had begun on Foutch's behalf.

In addition, Cofran said his organization is collecting the roughly 3,500 petition signatures necessary to place on the ballot a proposal that would require local voter approval before Kemper Arena or any other public building can be sold or demolished.

Maxwell added that razing Kemper Arena would help boost American Royal attendance and surrounding development because "the blighting factor hanging over the West Bottoms is Kemper Arena." It's in such bad shape, he said, that even promoters of a monster truck show that used to be held there won't come back.

Councilman Scott Wagner countered that the American Royal hasn't been very successful in attracting events either. The Royal has indicated that it expects its plan to attract 19 additional events to the complex, not counting the year-round youth sports activities to be added though a partnership with the ownership of Sporting Kansas City. But Wagner said he didn't believe that claim and asked for more support for it.

Maxwell responded that the American Royal, alone, will be responsible for making its facilities successful because its plan calls for it to assume ownership and maintenance responsibilities for the American Royal Complex. But Wagner noted that the American Royal was still asking for $30 million and $1 million a year in subsidies "and if you're going to ask me for a lot of money, I'm going to ask you a lot of questions."

According to Cofran, the American Royal's request for city subsidies and its declining event attendance are evidence that the organization "is no longer a going concern." That's one reason why the city should not allow the Royal to decide the fate of Kemper Arena, a public facility that taxpayers have invested $75 million in ($125 million including interest), Cofran said.

http://tinyurl.com/q5g8vdn

[chaglang]

God help me, I'm sitting here reading Dan Cofran's quotes and nodding.

The concept of voter approval for any municipal building sale sounds good for Kemper, but I wonder if that's going to be a morass of unintended consequences. I'd guess the city owns a lot of buildings. I don't want to make them hold a city-wide vote before they can sell a maintenance shed.

This was notable:

But on Wednesday, Finance Director Randy Landes charged that the American Royal was "torturing those numbers to tell the very worst possible story" about maintaining the status quo.

[AlbertHammond]

I keep getting these emails from Historic Kansas City about saving Kemper Arena. I really don't get the big deal. Sure..reuse it if there is a viable user and the dollars work out, but "saving" it because it is a historic structure seems stupid to me. I never much liked the building and it sure ain't cheap to maintain. I will not cry if its lost....and I often mourn lost buildings.

I think Historic Kansas City is devaluing themselves by trying to save everything. They need to stay focused and save the good stuff.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I'm wondering if the American Royal is going to threaten to sue the city for putting out an RFP and whether or not Foutch is going to get back in the ballgame.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Fiend v1.2.7.

[FangKC]

The thing that irritates me is the American Royal signed a 30-year-lease (or whatever it was) to use Kemper Arena. They keep dangling it in citizen's faces as the reason to tear Kemper down to suit their "new" needs. Well, if Kemper didn't suit their needs when they signed the lease, why the hell did they sign such a long-term lease? This could be turned around on them as well.

American Royal moved some events to Sprint Center after it opened. Why the hell doesn't the City enforce the lease the American Royal signed, and make them use Kemper until the lease is up?
Why doesn't the City just turn around and say, "Kemper is the facility you leased for all these years, we are going to enforce the lease and make you use it. We are not building you a new building. You can no longer use Sprint Center because you signed a lease for Kemper."

[FangKC]

I keep getting these emails from Historic Kansas City about saving Kemper Arena. I really don't get the big deal. Sure..reuse it if there is a viable user and the dollars work out, but "saving" it because it is a historic structure seems stupid to me. I never much liked the building and it sure ain't cheap to maintain. I will not cry if its lost....and I often mourn lost buildings.

I think Historic Kansas City is devaluing themselves by trying to save everything. They need to stay focused and save the good stuff.

While you may not like it AlbertHammond, many consider Kemper Arena to be a significant architectural structure because of its' design using the huge exterior beams to support the structure. It was innovative for its' time.

However, I can say I care less about the historic aspects of this situation, and have more interest in seeing the facility used for something. I think the Foutch plan was feasible, and am willing to give them a try and re-using it.

And I'm also willing to give the American Royal a fair shake at a new building, but they have to be willing to be reasonable and build it on the parking lot next to Kemper Arena, and accept that parking can be placed elsewhere, and the Barbeque event can possibly be held on Wyoming or Geneesee by closing the streets. For that matter, a downtown street could be closed to stage the event. Why does it have to be that parking lot next to Kemper?

[FangKC]

Kansas City to request more proposals for Kemper Arena's future

http://tinyurl.com/n3qwcus

[AlbertHammond]

While you may not like it AlbertHammond, many consider Kemper Arena to be a significant architectural structure because of its' design using the huge exterior beams to support the structure. It was innovative for its' time.

My concern is that Historic KC is devaluing themselves by fighting for a building that most citizens don't find charming. They have a valuable role to play in this city, so I hope they do what it takes to be valued and respected and can grow their mission.

Again...if the building can be used so it is not a financial burden to the city, GREAT! Let's keep it around. But fight for it?...no way. Maintain it, use it, and manage it like a municipal facility, but when it is no longer viable, then unload it.

We cannot save every building that has some innovative feature for its time. Take some photos and walk away. This building is just too damn big to keep around to admire if it cannot pay its own bills.

[loftguy]

While you may not like it AlbertHammond, many consider Kemper Arena to be a significant architectural structure because of its' design using the huge exterior beams to support the structure. It was innovative for its' time.

My concern is that Historic KC is devaluing themselves by fighting for a building that most citizens don't find charming. They have a valuable role to play in this city, so I hope they do what it takes to be valued and respected and can grow their mission.

Again...if the building can be used so it is not a financial burden to the city, GREAT! Let's keep it around. But fight for it?...no way. Maintain it, use it, and manage it like a municipal facility, but when it is no longer viable, then unload it.

We cannot save every building that has some innovative feature for its time. Take some photos and walk away. This building is just too damn big to keep around to admire if it cannot pay its own bills.

Let's tear down Municipal Auditorium while we are at it then. Maybe we can get a twofer.

[grovester]

While you may not like it AlbertHammond, many consider Kemper Arena to be a significant architectural structure because of its' design using the huge exterior beams to support the structure. It was innovative for its' time.

My concern is that Historic KC is devaluing themselves by fighting for a building that most citizens don't find charming. They have a valuable role to play in this city, so I hope they do what it takes to be valued and respected and can grow their mission.

Again...if the building can be used so it is not a financial burden to the city, GREAT! Let's keep it around. But fight for it?...no way. Maintain it, use it, and manage it like a municipal facility, but when it is no longer viable, then unload it.

We cannot save every building that has some innovative feature for its time. Take some photos and walk away. This building is just too damn big to keep around to admire if it cannot pay its own bills.

Charming? WTF does that mean?

I doubt very much that HKC wants to maintain an empty building into perpetuity.

[lock+load]

My concern is that Historic KC is devaluing themselves by fighting for a building that most citizens don't find charming. They have a valuable role to play in this city, so I hope they do what it takes to be valued and respected and can grow their mission.

Again...if the building can be used so it is not a financial burden to the city, GREAT! Let's keep it around. But fight for it?...no way. Maintain it, use it, and manage it like a municipal facility, but when it is no longer viable, then unload it.

We cannot save every building that has some innovative feature for its time. Take some photos and walk away. This building is just too damn big to keep around to admire if it cannot pay its own bills.

My issue is with the Royal trying to interfere with others trying to find a viable alternative reuse for Kemper. Maybe tearing it down is the endgame, but I don't think getting historic designation at this points hurts, and maybe helps make other reuse plans more viable.

The American Royal is dying and will likely be dead by the time the existing lease is up. It makes no sense to invest more city dollars in it.

[kcjak]

Doesn't historic designation typically result in limited options for exterior work in order to retain the architectural value of the building or am I confusing that with something else?

[aknowledgeableperson]

The thing that irritates me is the American Royal signed a 30-year-lease (or whatever it was) to use Kemper Arena. They keep dangling it in citizen's faces as the reason to tear Kemper down to suit their "new" needs. Well, if Kemper didn't suit their needs when they signed the lease, why the hell did they sign such a long-term lease? This could be turned around on them as well.

American Royal moved some events to Sprint Center after it opened. Why the hell doesn't the City enforce the lease the American Royal signed, and make them use Kemper until the lease is up?
Why doesn't the City just turn around and say, "Kemper is the facility you leased for all these years, we are going to enforce the lease and make you use it. We are not building you a new building. You can no longer use Sprint Center because you signed a lease for Kemper."

Yes, the AR and the City signed a long term lease 20 years ago and it has about 30 years remaining. At that time though Kemper was the city's main arena and the AR still had a need for a large arena. A lot has changed since that time. Now the city has an arena that sits empty say 45 weeks or more a year and the AR doesn't need as large of a facility as it once did. And don't forget that facility was not ideal in it set-up to house a horse show. In other words the current facility does not serve either party in their current needs and wants.

Did the AR use the SC for the rodeo one year? Yes, but I believe that was an experiment that was stopped after one year and the Royal did use Kemper for its leased time.

The goal for the City and the AR is to have a facility that better suites the needs of both, individually and collectively.

[beautyfromashes]

What was the benefit to the city of signing a $1/year lease for 50 years and still have to pay the upkeep on the building? What did the city get out of it? It seems the city was spending all the money and not getting anything in return.

[pash]

.

[FangKC]

While you may not like it AlbertHammond, many consider Kemper Arena to be a significant architectural structure because of its' design using the huge exterior beams to support the structure. It was innovative for its' time.

My concern is that Historic KC is devaluing themselves by fighting for a building that most citizens don't find charming. They have a valuable role to play in this city, so I hope they do what it takes to be valued and respected and can grow their mission.

Again...if the building can be used so it is not a financial burden to the city, GREAT! Let's keep it around. But fight for it?...no way. Maintain it, use it, and manage it like a municipal facility, but when it is no longer viable, then unload it.

We cannot save every building that has some innovative feature for its time. Take some photos and walk away. This building is just too damn big to keep around to admire if it cannot pay its own bills.

A couple of recent polls done by (I think) the Business Journal and the KC Star had the majority polled wanting to keep Kemper Arena, and I think a question in one of the polls indicated that people were less inclined to keep the American Royal. The KSHB news report I posted mentioned comments by viewers that appeared to be indicating that people didn't want Kemper torn down.

I would go as far as to predict that if a city-wide vote was taken to approve tearing Kemper Arena down to suit the American Royal plan, that it would fail right now.

I don't think anyone wants Kemper Arena sitting empty and unused. That is why I think if a second question put to a vote was to approve the Foutch plan, voters would approve that, and overrule the American Royals insistence that the building be demolished.

For example, if these items were put to a non-binding public vote (with my prediction of the outcome), it would at least provide some sense of public will to the City Council:

Question 1: Shall the City demolish Kemper Arena, and pursue the American Royal proposal to build a smaller arena on the cleared land? -- NO

Question 2: Shall Kemper Arena be sold to the Foutch Brothers so they can pursue developing it as a youth sports facility? -- YES

Question 3: Shall the City not demolish Kemper Arena, but still contribute public financing to build a smaller arena for the American Royal on the available parking lot east of Kemper Arena? -- YES

If this were the case, Kemper would be taken off the City's hands and the Foutch Brothers could redevelop it as a youth sports facility. The American Royal would get their new building with a contribution from the citizens of KCMO.

I don't know why the American Royal is being so stubborn about Kemper--other than the AR leaders just want to force their will on the City. Both the Foutch Brothers plan, and the AR's desire for a smaller facility could be accommodated. Any parking displaced by a new AR events facility could be moved elsewhere. There is land next to the Kansas River that is not being used, and another parcel to the northeast near the I-635 viaduct. Shuttle buses could be run from other vacant parcels in the West Bottoms.

[FangKC]

This is the area around Kemper Arena now.



This is a diagram of the area showing where the new American Royal events center could be built, and areas where the displaced parking spots could be relocated. Also shown are closed streets that could be used for the AR Barbeque, with redirected traffic using adjacent streets. Kemper Arena remains as a youth sports center.