KCRag Forum

Dealt with a few convention planners years ago. They have many points they consider when evaluating a city for a convention. The exterior look of a hotel or two doesn't count for much. The cost of staging a convention is very important. Cost of hotel rooms not so much since the attendees pay that cost (and sometimes there is a kickback to the convention to help offset the cost). Looks and comforts of the rooms will outweigh the looks of the exterior.
Convention planners do not count on how the exterior of a hotel looks like. They know the attendees will weigh way more important things than the looks.

I kind of hate that this is being called a 'convention hotel'. I understand that it's connected to the convention center and that it is being built to help drive that business, at least for the city. But, this should be more than that. This should be seen as a grand meeting place for the city. Being next to the Kauffnan Center and the streetcar line and P&L and the heart of the city; it should be grandiose and a reflection of the best that we hope to be in this city. It's not. It's boring, and that is why I think it's getting so many negative responses. It's the bare minimum.

This should be seen as a grand meeting place for the city

That's Bartle Hall. The convention hotel is for overnight stays for the convention center.

[quote[; it should be grandiose and a reflection of the best that we hope to be in this city[/quote]
It is. Financially sound decisions that provide an affordable location for individuals to stay is making a clear statement. It's Midwestern at it's most basic. We're not building for a bubble.

Convention Center hotels tend to be practical 3 star hotels, maybe a few are 4. But they do need to have modern amenities that appeal to modern convention logistics. Marriott is not cutting it even though it has about 1000 rooms. Does new convention center need to appear grand? Not really but it needs to be well integrated with streetlevel at a pedestrian scale and could stand out more if a residential/hotel combo and also have less chance of failing during down periods - I'm going to bring that up every chance I get as I think it's a huge risky mistake not to do a combo, especially with thousands more hotel rooms being added downtown right now.

I just disagree. We need a high class hotel for KC residents, not just out-of-towners coming for a convention. Proms, business meetings/parties, couples celebrating anniversaries, etc. If it's merely a box to stuff convention attendees, it's design matches it's boring function. It could be more.

beautyfromashes wrote:I just disagree. We need a high class hotel for KC residents, not just out-of-towners coming for a convention. Proms, business meetings/parties, couples celebrating anniversaries, etc. If it's merely a box to stuff convention attendees, it's design matches it's boring function. It could be more.

Hence why we have a lot of different types of hotels. This is a convention center hotel, nothing more than that. We need a convention hotel. We also need what you talk about. But that is not what this project is for. This project fills a different need for a different demographic.

UrbanKC wrote:

beautyfromashes wrote:I just disagree. We need a high class hotel for KC residents, not just out-of-towners coming for a convention. Proms, business meetings/parties, couples celebrating anniversaries, etc. If it's merely a box to stuff convention attendees, it's design matches it's boring function. It could be more.

Hence why we have a lot of different types of hotels. This is a convention center hotel, nothing more than that. We need a convention hotel. We also need what you talk about. But that is not what this project is for. This project fills a different need for a different demographic.

I imagine 4 light might fit this aforementioned role of the grand hotel that fits the needs of KC residents. It will be fine in the end.

Hyatt has 10 brands
Wyndham has 15
Marriott has 30

We could have 50 hotels downtown and not run out of ways to build a hotel.

beautyfromashes wrote:I just disagree. We need a high class hotel for KC residents, not just out-of-towners coming for a convention. Proms, business meetings/parties, couples celebrating anniversaries, etc. If it's merely a box to stuff convention attendees, it's design matches it's boring function. It could be more.

A hotel that fits that fits that requirement is not a convention hotel. A convention hotel is more for the masses. Not meaning by price point so much but definitely not one that pampers the guests. Evening turn down service. Towel figurines every day. And whatever else those "fancy" hotels do.

I would think tasteful wedding planners would prefer boutique hotels with much more character and a large enough ballroom over relatively practical convention hotels. Westin CC otherwise fits the bill for many weddings at once and has the cliff-like waterfall even though getting dated. Embassy Suites between Plaza/Westport also popular. Hotel Sorella is pretty new/swanky and has a ballroom targeting weddings, not sure about other boutique hotels in KC.

Earthling- Absolutely agree with the thought of residential with the conv hotel. This would not only add the height so many of us would like to see but help with financing, risk. Maybe off subject a little but, if I was a investor, developer, I would strongly consider a spec office tower considering how the vacancy rate in downtown is falling. Feel like the first to get a tower up will defiantly be the easiest to lease.

KCTOGA wrote:Earthling- Absolutely agree with the thought of residential with the conv hotel. This would not only add the height so many of us would like to see but help with financing, risk. Maybe off subject a little but, if I was a investor, developer, I would strongly consider a spec office tower considering how the vacancy rate in downtown is falling. Feel like the first to get a tower up will defiantly be the easiest to lease.

The Spec built Corrigan Station is already leased out I believe.

Is Corrigan considered class A?

earthling wrote:I would think tasteful wedding planners would prefer boutique hotels with much more character and a large enough ballroom over relatively practical convention hotels. Westin CC otherwise fits the bill for many weddings at once and has the cliff-like waterfall even though getting dated. Embassy Suites between Plaza/Westport also popular. Hotel Sorella is pretty new/swanky and has a ballroom targeting weddings, not sure about other boutique hotels in KC.

Not sure about the present but The Little Theater at the Municipal Auditorium was a very popular spot in the past. One of the busiest in the city and booked early. Would have bookings over a year out.

"A close family friend of ours is an underwriter for the contractor for this project. They said this project was originally planned to be the tallest building in Missouri, clocking in a 640+." quote from Urban STl.

ldai_phs wrote:"A close family friend of ours is an underwriter for the contractor for this project. They said this project was originally planned to be the tallest building in Missouri, clocking in a 640+." quote from Urban STl.

That kills me off.

i really don't think that would have been a good spot for our tallest tho. i think that our tallest should go in that waste of space parking lot north of traders is my dream location.

A 60+ story building would require a location where there can also be a lot of structured parking built without having to tear down existing buildings-- otherwise worthy of retaining. Even with mass transit, these tall buildings tend to require a lot of parking.

When one is fantasizing about skyscrapers, one needs to always keep this aspect in mind because an ill-planned skyscraper can end up creating a dead block or blocks.

FangKC wrote:A 60+ story building would require a location where there can also be a lot of structured parking built without having to tear down existing buildings-- otherwise worthy of retaining. Even with mass transit, these tall buildings tend to require a lot of parking.

When one is fantasizing about skyscrapers, one needs to always keep this aspect in mind because an ill-planned skyscraper can end up creating a dead block or blocks.

I found my rough cerner bannister campus if building downtown towers math

It was five towers the size of One Kc Place. Which takes up 2/3 of a block and four 16 story parking garages the size of an entire block. Think about a parking structure nearly the height of One Light but filling the entire block. It would be absolutely massive. The parking would be bigger than the buildings around it. Imagine 3500 cars in one small spot twice a day. If spread over two hours thats 30 cars per minute or a car every other second. There's no way that downtown can handle that many vehicles all at once let alone four garages of that scale.

A major complex of tall towers will need to wait on more transit and better commuter service. Right now we're in the position that mid rise structures with larger parking pedestals that minimize scale are the best use of space relative to the impact.

This hotel project is a great example.

No, a single 1000 room hotel wouldn't have that crazy of an impact, but you're still talking about a 1000 spot garage (staff use it too). That's an entire block at 5 floors or half a block at 10. It's still a substantial amount of space taken for parking.

fyi; here's the marriott hotel tied to the convention center in houston that is currently under construction.