KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[shaffe]

Hoodwinked! I voted yes because it had public transit in it. Hopefully there are enough educated voters to outweigh my foolishness.

[DaveKCMO]

Hoodwinked! I voted yes because it had public transit in it. Hopefully there are enough educated voters to outweigh my foolishness.

indeed, and you're welcome!

[pash]

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[Highlander]

I still don't undersrand why the city didn't just roll with it. The courts, the city's lawyers, Chastain—everybody agreed the ballot measures were blank checks. Why campaign against a couple of blank checks when you're looking for ways to find your rail transit system that keeps getting shot down due to your own political failures?

The Star indicated the ballot measure was "crushed". Was it? What I find amazing is that, considering that practically everyone was against it, even the instigator, 30 percent of the people still voted for it. I don't think anything gets more cut and dry then this - an open checkbook to spend money on whatever the city's whim is and it still generates considerable support.

Does that mean every ballot issue starts with 30% support regardless of what it is? It just doesn't seem like it should be that tough to get that extra 21% of the voters.

[loftguy]

I still don't undersrand why the city didn't just roll with it. The courts, the city's lawyers, Chastain—everybody agreed the ballot measures were blank checks. Why campaign against a couple of blank checks when you're looking for ways to find your rail transit system that keeps getting shot down due to your own political failures?

The Star indicated the ballot measure was "crushed". Was it? What I find amazing is that, considering that practically everyone was against it, even the instigator, 30 percent of the people still voted for it. I don't think anything gets more cut and dry then this - an open checkbook to spend money on whatever the city's whim is and it still generates considerable support.

Does that mean every ballot issue starts with 30% support regardless of what it is? It just doesn't seem like it should be that tough to get that extra 21% of the voters.

Mercury is in retrograde, Highlander. That's all there is to explain this election cycle. Reason has left the equation.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

Does that mean every ballot issue starts with 30% support regardless of what it is?

1997: Chastain saw his proposal to turn Union Station into a transportation hub that would be light-rail friendly defeated 67 percent to 33 percent.

1998: A second plan proposing light rail from Union Station to the Kansas City International Airport lost by a 55-45 percent margin.

1999: Chastain's light-rail initiative attracted only 37 percent of the vote.

2000: His light-rail proposal took only 38 percent. A separate proposal for a gondola and other Penn Valley improvement won 46 percent.

2001: The city's light-rail plan garnered just 40 percent. (not a Chastain initiative)

2002: A Chastain initiative that included light rail, streetcars and Penn Valley Park modifications won only 35 percent of the vote.

2003: Another Chastain light-rail plan attracted only 36 percent.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

gondolas were also part of the 2006 plan, so yeah.

[FangKC]

While we laugh at the gondola aspect of Chastain's plan, they are a good option in many cities around the world. They are cheaper to install that streetcars or light rail. Because gondola cars are staggered equally, and constantly moving between stops, they can move people all the time without waiting for the next bus or streetcar. Steep grades are less an issue. Car traffic and accidents on the street don't affect them. They don't affect street traffic when they are stopped. Streets don't require dedicated lanes.

They are often good solutions when a city has to cross barriers--like a river. A gondola system might be more practical to cross the Missouri to N. Kansas City because it wouldn't require usage of a bridge.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/13/business/ ... transport/

http://www.wired.com/2012/11/austin-gondola/

http://mashable.com/2013/07/03/urban-gondolas/

[moderne]

lilmited passenger capacity. inoperable in moderate winds and snowy icey weather. More of a touristy frou frou than effective urban transport.

[loftguy]

touristy frou frou

The absolute moratorium on the use of this term remains in full effect.

[rxlexi]

No real point to this comment, but man, seeing all of the fresh rail in the ground and major construction up and down Main St. has me really bummed that we don't have Phase II approved yet.

This one line, if extended to Plaza/UMKC, can transform the core of the city.

[flyingember]

A gondola system might be more practical to cross the Missouri to N. Kansas City because it wouldn't require usage of a bridge.

there's nowhere a person would want to cross the Missouri River to right now that there isn't a bridge to today.

[pash]

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[flyingember]

For anyone not downtown in a while I'd estimate 10 of the approx 30 total blocks of track is completed or in the process. (Judgement call since not all blocks are the same length)

Since there's some curves to do, let's call it 25% completed

[flyingember]

the tony guy (or his site) gets further and further off.

now he's claiming that utility costs should have been covered by the TDD. Which does bring up a good point to listen to for future plans, need to be explicit about what the tax covers. it wasn't crystal clear on utilities either way with the first TDD since utility cost increases could be higher because of this project. Getting an assessment on the cost to people for the work would be smart for transparency.

but he's trying to spin the full utility cost increases as streetcar related when the utility companies have to explain the reasons for the rate increases and this is all online. it's provable that's not the case. it's quite sad.

[kboish]

the tony guy (or his site) gets further and further off.

now he's claiming that utility costs should have been covered by the TDD. Which does bring up a good point to listen to for future plans, need to be explicit about what the tax covers. it wasn't crystal clear on utilities either way with the first TDD since utility cost increases could be higher because of this project. Getting an assessment on the cost to people for the work would be smart for transparency.

but he's trying to spin the full utility cost increases as streetcar related when the utility companies have to explain the reasons for the rate increases and this is all online. it's provable that's not the case. it's quite sad.

Here is a portion of his rant.

When we floated the "STEALTH TAX" idea during the streetcar campaign some people snickered. "STEALTH TAXES" are the hidden taxes all voters will pay whether you are on the streetcar line or not. Recently two such efforts have surfaced: KCP&L has asked for a 15.8% rate increase and MGE has requested a "infrastructure System Replacement Surcharge." We were led to believe the utility replacement costs involved with the streetcar were covered by the taxes levied in the TDD. Now here are the utility companies asking for increases not only in the TDD area but city wide, thus the 'STEALTH TAX". Unseen in the beginning but here they come and we believe this is just the the beginning. Stay alert voters, this streetcar will cost us billion$ before it is over.

There are so many things wrong with this tiny paragraph... I tried to start writing a list of things this guy clearly has no clue about, but it got to long and tiresome....

And yet this is his "job" - to sit around and comment on it.

I apologize for littering the rag with this nonsense, but unfortunately he is actually a source of information for a portion of our city who pays attention to these types of issues.

[chaglang]

Oh, Tony has to be right: up to now, KCP&L has never, ever increased rates. So it must be the streetcar's fault.

TKC and Facebook are two things my life is infinitely better without.

[chingon]

Tony didn't write that, he just posts cut and paste jobs that the Citizens for Responsible Government/Show-Me Institute/Indignant Ward Parkway Corridor White Guys crowd feed him.