KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[taxi]

My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?

They were cold-blooded, knowledgeable people.

[chaglang]

The MAX shelters got a lot right. Unfortunate to see KC go backwards on this.

[flyingember]

My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?

they didn't always. the average lifespan in 1920 was around 54 years.

Exposure to weather isn't likely the cause of this but it sure doesn't help.

[mykn]

My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?

1 of 2 things probably.

If they were wealthy enough they said "Fuck this, I'm getting a car". If they were not wealthy enuogh, they probably just stood there and took it.

If we want to get people to purposely leave their cars behind (This IS KC after all) and purposely take public transit, we have to offer creature comforts to make that transition easier.

[flyingember]

If we want to get people to purposely leave their cars behind (This IS KC after all) and purposely take public transit, we have to offer creature comforts to make that transition easier.

you would be amazed at how much a good seating setup can be this

Like in the stop mockup it shows a single tiny seat. compare that to the non-max stops at 10th and Main and 8th and Main with space for 6 to sit. I know the goal was to save money but the current design is too minimal. I will give good odds that a top complaint when the line begins operating is there's not enough places to sit and wait. Because while the goal is every 10 minutes, wait until an accident turns that into 30 minutes. It will happen.

[aknowledgeableperson]

My, oh my! How did people survive using public transportation before shelters?

they didn't always. the average lifespan in 1920 was around 54 years.

Exposure to weather isn't likely the cause of this but it sure doesn't help.

I took the bus for about 5 to 6 years in the 70's and 80's. Much like it is now, sometimes waiting in the rain and snow, for the bus. So, yes, I do know what it is like waiting on the bus. And, yes, there were no shelters. 1920 has nothing to do about it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

As someone who stood at a bus shelter at least twice every workday for 10 years in NYC. I can say from experience that the streetcar shelters really won't shelter anyone well in bad weather. They will only serve to cover one's head in a light rain that hopefully is falling straight down. For the most part, they are a waste of money.

Just wait until there is a crowd around a stop during bad weather and the shelter is not big enough to protect(?) all those waiting for the next bus or streetcar. The complaints will be about the "small" shelters.

[grovester]

The cost to add sides or seating would have been negligible I would think. Not nothing, but certainly not a budget buster.

[DaveKCMO]

none of you have seen or stood under the shelter in person, so there's that.

there is a small windscreen on one side that will shield the direction of the prevailing wind, depending on the shelter's orientation (north or east). there is sufficient overhang on the front (same as MAX) and additional overhang on the backside.

as for seating, the entire stop as built will basically be available as seating -- a lengthy concrete ledge, the lower edge of the shelter frame is "lean" height, as well as the ipe wood bench that seats two. due to space constraints, there will be no southbound shelter at 12th & main.

with high frequencies (higher than MAX every single day of the week), you won't be waiting long.

these shelters cost less than MAX shelters, too.

thanks for the insults, though!

[flyingember]

the entire concrete ledge has a back to it?

[chaglang]

none of you have seen or stood under the shelter in person, so there's that.

there is a small windscreen on one side that will shield the direction of the prevailing wind, depending on the shelter's orientation (north or east). there is sufficient overhang on the front (same as MAX) and additional overhang on the backside.

as for seating, the entire stop as built will basically be available as seating -- a lengthy concrete ledge, the lower edge of the shelter frame is "lean" height, as well as the ipe wood bench that seats two. due to space constraints, there will be no southbound shelter at 12th & main.

with high frequencies (higher than MAX every single day of the week), you won't be waiting long.

these shelters cost less than MAX shelters, too.

thanks for the insults, though!

Unless you designed the shelter yourself, I'm not sure why you're getting upset. These are pretty obvious design critiques.

[DaveKCMO]

the entire concrete ledge has a back to it?

no. it's a ledge that's 16-18" taller than the platform surface (which will itself be taller than the sidewalk).

regardless, the first platform and shelter will appear at 16th and main in the next 30 days or so. people can go poke and prod in real life and then decide what they like or don't like. right now, it's all conjecture based on internet pictures.

[DaveKCMO]

Unless you designed the shelter yourself, I'm not sure why you're getting upset. These are pretty obvious design critiques.

correct. i did not design the shelter myself but i did championed the design because it's unique, functional... yet not a sad box.

upset would be an overstatement.

[chaglang]

That design and a boring, sad box were probably not the only options available.

[DaveKCMO]

That design and a boring, sad box were probably not the only options available.

correct. the architect provided an initial design that was well liked, so we made sure it was also functional during the design process. all three neighborhoods were represented and KCATA was at the table.

the other consideration was property owners who complained that the MAX shelters and markers were too bulky for downtown sidewalks.

[grovester]

Unless you designed the shelter yourself, I'm not sure why you're getting upset. These are pretty obvious design critiques.

correct. i did not design the shelter myself but i did championed the design because it's unique, functional... yet not a sad box.

upset would be an overstatement.

As would insult

[JBmidtown]

The design isn't awful. hell, I'd take those shelters over no shelters any day. Out of curiosity, how much do shelters typically cost to install and is it plausible for the KCATA to add shelters to their busiest bus routes. And for that matter, is it plausible to change those routes to have dedicated stops? I know this is a thread about the streetcar and I'm not trying to derail the conversation, just curious

[DaveKCMO]

The design isn't awful. hell, I'd take those shelters over no shelters any day. Out of curiosity, how much do shelters typically cost to install and is it plausible for the KCATA to add shelters to their busiest bus routes. And for that matter, is it plausible to change those routes to have dedicated stops? I know this is a thread about the streetcar and I'm not trying to derail the conversation, just curious

the cost isn't so much the shelter itself -- they have lots sitting around -- it's the maintenance.
each KCATA shelter costs about $3K/year to clean and maintain.

i don't know how much the basic bus shelter costs. there are a few types in the system:

- basic blue (most common)



- downtown special (i just gave them that name, they're part of an early 90s streetscape that included sidewalks and streetlights)



- main MAX (single sided glass panels)



- troost MAX (dual-sided with plexiglas panels)

[mykn]

The design isn't awful. hell, I'd take those shelters over no shelters any day. Out of curiosity, how much do shelters typically cost to install and is it plausible for the KCATA to add shelters to their busiest bus routes. And for that matter, is it plausible to change those routes to have dedicated stops? I know this is a thread about the streetcar and I'm not trying to derail the conversation, just curious

the cost isn't so much the shelter itself -- they have lots sitting around -- it's the maintenance.
each KCATA shelter costs about $3K/year to clean and maintain.

i don't know how much the basic bus shelter costs. there are a few types in the system:

- basic blue (most common)



- downtown special (i just gave them that name, they're part of an early 90s streetscape that included sidewalks and streetlights)



- main MAX (single sided glass panels)



- troost MAX (dual-sided with plexiglas panels)

I've always loved the look of the "Downtown" stops. The streetcar stops do look amazing though.

[flyingember]

5th and Delaware is getting a brand new protected pedestrian island at the track curve. it's a substantial change to the intersection